Taurus at least is advertised for semi stationary.
Might be the small differences like constant optics being active
Semi stationnary is more likely “stationnary targets that have moved before the missile hit” in that it has a 2 way datalink, so it can send back info and receive new coordinates to target. I dont doubt it could hit a moving ship either considering the seeker, but it’d likely need to be guided to the appropriate coordinates to pick it up in the first place.
I think thats where it differs from AASM.
I’m not sure how to interpret that TBH. I guess it could mean it has a capability against some form of moving target. But personally I’m leaning towards it meaning stuff like S-400 / Patriot air defence systems; they are not stationary targets in that they can move (unlike buildings / bunkers), but would be stationary at the time they are attacked.
Edit: Or as Mythic said targets that are stationary when attacked but have moved position slightly compared to when the strike was planned.
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Well, considering the AASM can access the rafale database before launch to get the information of how a vehicle looks like, as long as said vehicle is still in the seeker FoV and missile capabilities, the missile should still be able to connect with said target even if it moved from the original targeted area/is moving slowly.
That’s similar to the MMW brimstone which I believe has a rather short range and «goes « pitbull » only a few kilometers from target, according to this document (well more precisely it should detect the target a few kilometers before impact):
While the rather small time window the AASM has after seeker activation and its more limited maneuverability, especially at those range, doesn’t make it a very good system against moving targets (and mostly useless against fast moving ones), it’s not a capability that I believe is impossible.
But anyway, it depends on how the IR target is actually transferred to the missile by the rafale. And as only the rafale is said to be able to transfer informations, as @DirectSupport mentionned, I wonder how the RMV AASM would work. Is it preprogrammed before launch (like the SCALP) ?
If so, it would be completely incapable of targeting moving targets
SCALP Storm Shadow also use terrain feature guidance for the whole flight.
Actually, I would tend to believe that both missiles use the same base algorithm for their guidance, seeing that the guidance system of both systems are very close and the system used by the SCALP and AASM seems to also be used by the German, although on which system is not said (but the Taurus is the only German system that similar to the SCALP hence my assumption)
I might be misunderstanding, but I’m almost 100% certain the IR head cant hit a moving target specifically due to how it works.
The “seeker” isnt really a seeker from the sounds of it, its just an imager thats used to compare images and not continuous video feed to what its supposed to hit.
This section mentions the imager tries to match the scene to its pre-programmed target image:
This section mentions this is done twice, which sounds a lot to me like its taking 2 pictures. 1 at 1500m alt, and then another from closer in where it tries to get better resolution for that 1m CEP.
Which to me implies it is not continuously comparing what it see’s to what its meant to target.
If its really only taking 2 pictures then theres no way its hitting a moving target.
The key point to me is that it mentions that the onboard guidance will produce an error vector based on comparing what the IR head see’s vs what its supposed to see, and adjusting trajectory to compensate for the error. This in no way means its locked onto a target and guiding in real time, it means its checked where it was going to hit vs where its supposed to hit, and adjusted accordingly.
But from the information provided it appears the AASM IR seeker is used for scene matching rather than target tracking. So it will not be
To put it another way: the AASM doesn’t fly to the target area then turn on it’s seeker look for tanks. Instead it is given a map of the area surrounding the target before the mission (or perhaps the map can be uploaded during the mission or more advanced platforms). When it reaches the target area, it switches on the imaging seeker and compares what it sees in the front of it to the map it was given.
The map will tell it the location of target relative to major features, the seeker can then identify the major features and steer the weapon accordingly.
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It does mention the optics are low technology as well so that could fit
AFAIK, that is the basic guidance for older system (Mirage 2000 testings in the 200s) which requires preprogramming in the same way the SCALP, Taurus… are preprogrammed.
With the Rafale being able to provide accurate target data before launch, it should be able to correct its course towards said target even if it’s not on the same mark as it used to be before launch, as long as it’s in the general area.
When I say moving target, I’m mainly thinking of stuff like SPAA (in game) that might move only a few dozen meters from targets. Let’s say the AASM is 1.5km above the target in terminal guidance at Mach 1, the bomb will hit about 4-5 seconds after the sensor activates. With 2 correction, one 5 seconds before impact, and the last about 2 seconds before impact, that is largely sufficient to hit at least near the target, and since the AASM is a bomb at its core, it’s definitely sufficient to destroy the target even if it’s moving at lets say 20-30km/h
Not sure how SCALP would do so tho? Taurus has its imagers out in the open right off the bat, and in the video can be seen slewing around and looking at different scenes.
SCALP on the other hand has not visible imagers:
I didnt even realized it had terminal guidance via an IIR system similar to taurus until someone posted a source saying the nosecap comes off to reveal the imager in terminal approach
Its likely it could still hit targets if they moved a bit/ is moving slowly. But the circumstances of the 1.5km range limits the target area by a lot. And the cluster of dead vehicles onnthe map would attract the IR missle since they could still fit the target aquisition
But it seems the AASM IR seeker is used to compare the terrain in front of it to the terrain around the planned target location. As it is looking for terrain features (including buildings, roads, etc.) and not vehicles it would have no way of reacting if the target were to move. It would just very accurately guide itself to the target position it was given prior too launch.
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MBDA states that the SCALP EG is capable of both GPS/INS, but also terrain referencing. I have always assumed that it used its IIR seeker to achieve that.
Good point, I’ll look further into how it’s achieved
Storm Shadow / SCALP use data from the downwards looking radar altimeter to build up a terrain profile, rather than using optical sensors and image comparison.
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The other question is what kind of actual targetting information could the Rafale even provide in a real time situation like in a WT battle. To get proper details for scene matching, itd likely either need multiple shots from various angles (to reconstruct a scene as seen from the top down view the AASM IR would be attacking from), along with the type of vehicle it was looking to strike, or it would just need multiple outright top down views of the target site. Its also possible it could use the SAR function to get further estimated details in real time, but even that takes a bit, and SAR isnt a function that exists in-game either (unfortunately)
Im pretty sure IRL it’d be using pre-acquired satellite imagery for it, which doesnt really lend itself to targeting of anything but a stationary vehicle thats been stationary for a while.
You’ll have to ask @DirectSupport whenever he responds, but the Rafale does has internal database of different models of vehicles/target recognition algorithms (not limited to terrain marker), which is something that the DGA has developed for many of its systems (the jaguar/akeron combo is also using a similar system), and he believes that said information could be pushed to the missile before launch.
The DGA often states that the AASM is on continuous development so I wouldn’t be surprised such system might have been implemented in the lifespan of the system
I think it might have some slits in the nosecap to allow the imager to see maybe? I’m not entirely sure.
2 black lines might be slits?:
Oh, I dont doubt that, itd be weird if it didnt, what I’m saying is I think its somewhat dubious the Rafale would be able to rapidly provide all the necessary info the AASM would need for a strike vs a vehicle target that wasn’t stationary in the first place.
Theres just literally no info regarding the AASM IR that makes me think “oh it might be able to hit a moving target post-launch”.
I guess gaijin could make it capable of tracking vehicle targets and just give it a track rate of 0 deg/s maybe? That could make it able to acquire a target but unable to track it if it moves at all.
At that point tho, you’re jumping through a LOT of hoops just to get what would amount to GPS+ guidance, you’d be better off just using laser AASM, seeing as it can also outrange every SAM in-game just fine, would allow you to go after moving targets, and is also just much healthier for the game.
Oh yeah personally I much prefer using laser AASM because they are not as dumb to use as IR AASM.
My only 2 issues are :
- the spawn range of planes is way too close to the battlefield. Spawning at 15kl puts you directly in PANTSIR range which is very annoying (for all aircraft)
- the rafale still doesn’t have time to target information on its laser guided weapons, which is a completely stupid oversight and makes the AASM laser a bit unnecessarily annoying to use at longer range since the missile is slow and you don’t get information on when it’s going to hit
Also (like other pods I assume) the Damocles and ALTIS pods are missing sight stabilization that allows them to keep the picture horizontal even when the plane flies at an angle compared to the designated area, and it’s a bit annoying in the angular limits of the pod.
The AASM is also missing a significant amount of off bore capabilities to deal with SAM from a longer range as well.
Well hopefully that will be changed soon as well.
If every nation gets advanced spaas, spawn point in general will need to be reworked.
For good or worse is another matter.
But as of right now the game literaly is unplayable at top tier cause of cas.
Everyone and his lother is only playing russia since they dominate to much.
I never saw the game in such a broken state before.