Dassault Rafale - Variants, Characteristics, Armament and Performance

[DirectSupport]

@MythicPi

Your point before it was mentioned the jammers were definitely ESA’s was that no other aircrafts had ESA’s at the time, much less miniaturized ESA’s.

I should note it was said specifically AESA. PESA had already been on the Mig-31 and Rafale in the 90’s for example, so saying ESA wouldn’t have been right. I don’t even know if Rafale had PESA jammers or not at the time as well, just knew it was not AESA. Just to make a distinction since you had been stating ESA and not AESA which is important to clarify.

@MythicPi

You then asked for a source on the claim for the jammers, and changed your tune on the jammers, but remain convinced the MAWS arent ESA’s due to size constraints, which you could’ve checked isnt an issue, seeing as the wing root (where the MAWS are located) are of similar thickness as the wingtip pods.

Asking for a source on the claim of the jammers doesn’t necessarily mean I cast doubt on the jammers FYI. Anyone asking for a source on a claim doesn’t mean they’re on a particular side. I was already vocal about my doubts of AESA maws.

@MythicPi

This is also just ignoring the fact that the size of the wingtip pods clearly isn’t dictated by the antenna size, but by the boxy ESM computer components, which in the pic of the MAWS components, can clearly be seen not to be directly attached to the MAWS antennas, instead seemingly using wired connections.

I’ll have to look more into this.

[quartas121]

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the F-111A have an IR MAWS?

[Mulatu_Astatke]

I wouldn’t know. When was it introduced out of curiosity?

[quartas121]

F-111A introduced 1967

[quartas121]

@Mulatu_Astatke

retrofitted

Im fairly sure the AAR-34 wasn’t retrofitted, it was on there when it entered service afaik

Which really makes the EFT look bad, I mean this thing is a replacement for a century series jet and it has IR MAWS

[Morvran]

Eurofighter Typhoon (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion

The original ISD for Eurofighter was 1995 and it was judged that AESA technology would not be mature enough by then. That judgement is clearly correct as it was not until the early 2000’s that the first airborne AESA radar’s started being introduced to service on fighter aircraft. Obviously the ISD of Eurofighter slipped, but the decision to use an advanced M-Scan radar was already made by then. And before you make some snide comment about how the Eurofighter was late and therefore bad I’ll rem…

[Hylian_Knights]

Lets remember to keep this thread on track and not go off topic.

[ayanamiP]

I wonder why Mulatu Astatke comments are always flagged 🤔

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

@Caernarvon02

If you’re annoyed at me calling the rafale a Eurofighter/EAP clone read up how it came into development, It is pretty much just that

It is as much a clone of the EFT as the AMX 30 is the leopard. France got what they needed out of both programs, both programs did not continue to meet French needs, they developed their own solutions from what they found useful in each program.

“Clone” is a very askew way to term it.

[Caernarvon02]

they were there long enough to get the valuable base. as far as I can tell the only major difference is the rafales are also naval aircraft.

@Fluffy_Bucketles

“Clone” is a very askew way to term it.

its a split in the path more than a clone true. Its just very french to storm out of a joint project only to do basically the same thing and then claim its totally different because its french

[DirectSupport]

@Caernarvon02

If you’re annoyed at me calling the rafale a Eurofighter/EAP clone read up how it came into development, It is pretty much just that

France/Dassault had been making deltas for 50 years prior to the Rafale, and the Mirage 4000 which is a delta with moving canards (although not to the extent of Rafale/EFT) already existed prior to the two aircrafts.

Would make a lot more sense to call the Rafale a copy of the M4K and not EFT.

[Caernarvon02]

@Mulatu_Astatke

Considering the Rafale has proven to be the far better design

where and when?

[quartas121]

Export success outside of Europe, the only thing that beats it is the US arms market.

Radar tech, from the start the Rafale was better

Arguably better ECM (though this is kinda hard to prove since it’s classified AF) (360° coverage for sure though)

Payload, the Rafale has it beat by about a ton

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

@quartas121

Export success outside of Europe, the only thing that beats it is the US arms market.

*On account of subsidising and expending long held stock that no longer serves to keep

Let’s just remember which particular exporter we’re talking about regarding what beats it.

[DirectSupport]

@Fluffy_Bucketles

This was more my understanding, just with useful bits from their work in the EFT program.

Also should note that the Rafale A prototype for the Eurofighter program had been unveiled and flew before the EAP, so it doesn’t make any sense at all to say the Rafale is a copy of anything.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

Yeah, I worded it dodgy, didn’t mean clone so much as things like m4k influenced France’s desire for a thing like Rafale. But my words failed me 😿

[TuxedoBird]

Phrogge :D

[Morvran]

CAPTOR-E is the superior radar
Typhoon has an equal MAWS
Typhoon has at least equal EW
Typhoon has the better A2G loadout options with PW4s (10) and Brimstones (18) and soon Spear-3 (18) (isnt france planning to buy Spear-3 as well?)
PIRATE is equal or superior to the IRST on the Rafale
EFT has equal or superior sensor fusion with Striker II being the most advanced HMD in service currently.
ASRAAM is superior to MICA IR and both nations use METEOR (with Typhoon able to carry more missiles iirc)

@Mulatu_Astatke

Sure the Eurofighter has better flight performance, but then again it looks like a toad from the front:

You already admit its the superior airframe, so by that regard, Typhoon is at least equal if not superior in every respect except for range, which the Rafale does beat it on, but other than that. The Rafale is the inferior aircraft.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

@Morvran_

Typhoon has the better A2G loadout options with PW4s (10) and Brimstones (18) and soon Spear-3 (18) (isnt france planning to buy Spear-3 as well?)

Different doctrine. Use cases, they’re more or less equal.

@Morvran_

ASRAAM is superior to MICA IR and both nations use METEOR (with Typhoon able to carry more missiles iirc)

Supposedly the manufacturer can configure Rafale to carry a very similar figure regarding AAMs.

[Caernarvon02]

shouldnt be too hard to make british ordinance run on a dassault rafale. NATO standardisation probably makes implementing them on aircraft a simple process