i can understand his PoV, If everything was the same in every TT,… but it’s not.
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So, we would have had :
F2 : 6 missiles, MICA EM for now (since IR like most modern IR missiles will not come anytime soon), 2 magic 2s. No HMD. Barely any ground ordinance, against a eurofighter with 10 AAM, 18 brimstones, better FM, and a F15E, with similar air and ground load out
F3 : 6 missiles still. No Meteor for at least a few years because it would be absolutely busted (out of all the missiles left for France, it will probably be the last to come). Better ground armement (basically what we have now). Nerf to the avionics losing the IRST
F4.1 : Finally 8 missiles. Finally HMD. Can get 1000kg AASM
F4.2 : Get access to MICA NG
yeah, that’s great idea you got here. In a vacuum, F2 is nice. In the current top tier it would be stupid to add. Worse than even the gripen in many way except Radar and FM.
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as many AASM as now,… simply not the Laser guided one:
-F.2-
- F.2.1 - (F.2 Early)
Added: OFS, MICA IR, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea radar modes, SCALP-EG, MIDS/L16 and SNECMA M88-2E4 - F.2.2 - (F.2 Late)
Added: AASM-IIR, AASM-GPS, SPECTRA update - GBU support (buddy lasing required)
IRST is due to OSF, which is still present on most F.3’s:
-F.3-
- F.3 - (F.3 Early)
Added: Air-to-Surface radar mode, LAM for MICA, AM39, ASMP-A, AREOS Recco-NG pod (side note: no TGP)
Lacked: DDM and OFS - F.3 - (F.3 Late) **
DDM and OFS system re-added - F.3.2
Added: Gun A2G mode*, DAMOCLES (-NG) - GBU-12, GBU-22 - F.3.3
Added: Full LGB support - GBU-24 integrated - F.3-4+ - (F.3R / F.4 ready)
Added: Modernized SPECTRA system; MWS-NG, OFS-IT, DDM-NG, RBE2-AA plug & play - F.3R
(F.3-4+) Added: RBE2-AA, MBDA Meteor missile, TALIOS pod, AN/AAQ-33 Sniper compability, AM39 Block II Mod. 2, AASM-L, Mk.81 / 82 / 83 bombs, GBU-16
as the F.3 would be F.3R for SIGNIFICANT Change (as Gaijin always did).
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IR AASM are very similar to PGMs as of now. That is, very short lock range (less than 8km on track mode for most ground vehicles), pretty slow, very visible, hence easily deflatable by most SPAA.
Not the best ground ordinance I could thing of, even considering current top tier.
that comment was made with heavy sarcasm
IR AASM are GPS guided, then Terminal phase is Auto-IR Aiming.
go read this:
“* INS/GPS IR: This Seeker adds an infrared imager for terminal guidance. With a simplified model of the scene around the target first being uploaded to the weapon, this imager allows the AASM to recalculate its trajectory during the last few seconds prior to impact, using image recognition algorithms. This allows AASM to hit its target with the highest possible accuracy, even if GPS coordinates are incorrect, or the GPS signal is unavailable.”
I’ll give you an excerpt of a report I made for the OSF :
The OSF (Optique Secteur Frontal) system was added to the F2 Rafale standard. Originally composed of the TV sensor (rectangular sensor), and the IRST sensor (ball sensor), the system was changed with the standard F3. According to this source : https://omnirole-rafale.com/avionique/optronique-secteur-frontal the IR sensor was removed and TV sensor replaced with the Rafale F3 in 2013. The appearance of this new system is confirmed by Dassault : https://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/02/Dossier-RAFALE_FR.pdf at page 14. The new system, OSF-IT only use the TV part of the system. Furthermore, for all known pictures, we can see that F3 standard feature a dummy IR ball sensor (https://archives.defense.gouv.fr/air/moyens/avions-de-chasse/rafale-f3-r.html as well as Picture 1) In picture 2, you can see for reference the OSF of a F2 standard in it’s turned of position. All pictures with this IR sensor not being a dummy are those of F2 standard, that can be identified due to using the older DDM sensor, with a flat black sensor on the top of the vertical stabiliser - see picture 3 - when F3+ use DDM-NG which is ball shaped - see Picture 4. The DDM-NG arrived at the same time as OSF-IT (see previous source from Dassault).
The standard F4 is receiving a new IRST system developed by Thales (L’IRST, la solution silencieuse pour une détection de haut vol | Thales Group). The new system is called OSF-IRST (Thales Defence on LinkedIn: Caroussel_100eme IRST_Thales.pdf | 12 comments).
In an article by Dassault Aviation, they claim that this IRST is a new system (Perspectives d'avenir du Rafale)
According to Bruno Clermont, Air advisor to the CEO of Dassault from 2014 to 2021, the IR sensor of the Rafale did not work until the arrival of the new IRST sensor. (Bruno Clermont on LinkedIn: Caroussel_100eme IRST_Thales.pdf)
This article also claim the return of the IR sensor (https://www.areion24.news/2020/06/02/rafale-le-standard-f4-se-devoile/), meaning that it was removed prior to the F4 introduction.
In this interview of an official about the capacities of the new F4 standard : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYnxnIF2tnE&t=226s , at 3:46, they mention the return of the IRST sensor used to passively track low visibility targets.
Named “Pictures” are added pictures for reference
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- F.3 - (F.3 Late) **
DDM and OFS system re-added
So we want to fix it by bringing in lased ordnance that is: very visible, pretty slow, with a long guidance range provided you’re daft enough to sit there lasing it. Or a short tracking range if you lase it in the terminal approach.
Seems different enough to warrant sooking.
The devs will not implement LOAL mechanics. That was confirmed multiple times including at the addition of the Brimstones. In game, IR AASM will not pick up a lock after losing it. They will not pick up a lock when guiding with GPS. They will remain GPS until impact
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So it could just not use air to ground armaments in war thunder, at best it could have the gps one ??? other than that nothing in ground from what i understand ? No ?
then bug reports should be made.
this kind of Gaijin is made in order to nerf several nations (namely NATO) over the others (namely russia)
Laser PGMs can be fired from much farther away. Thus they can be lobed from outside the SPAA range and enter their defensive range with their engine turned off. They are much less visible and harder to defeat this way.
So you realise on dev the AASM with IR guidance targeted a point via GPS-simulacrum initially with the seeker aimed at that point, and could acquire an IR track once it was within range, right? So it functioned effectively the same as the laser option minus having to lase the terminal approach.
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There are no sources for that tho. The OSF-IRST is F4 specific, and I have found no evidence any were added to F3 Rafales. At least not those that weren’t retrofitted to F4 at the same time
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Some AGM65 do work that way in game. That is not the case for IR PGMs, nor was it during dev for IR AASM.
Things to note in regards of AASM; all variants share the same performance (currently underperform, but already reported), only difference will be guidance method.
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It was, don’t know what you’re on about, given I spent almost the entirety testing rafale’s air to ground capability on Dev and it functioned this way consistently. If the seeker couldn’t see it, it didn’t acquire it, but if it did then it began to track. Very similarly to most other AGMs with an IR seeker including the PGM.
Thanks to the individual for reminding me, but it behaved very similarly to how KH38 re-acquires a target, but with a far easier designation of target area.
According to this logic LOAL capability should be present on Kh-38MT … guess what it isn’t so yeah i don’t know where you are going with this .
Regardless imo F3-2 standard whould had been the best choice considering it integrates everything Gaijin was looking for except for the AESA radar which was not needed to begin with .
As for the x6 or x8 MICA as it has been proven the technical capability has been there way before the F4 standard was even a thing . Operational service is not required in War Thunder so there is nothing to add to it . If x8 MICA are required ( in case Typhoon gets double pilons seen in the files ) then Gaijin has all the means to add x8 MICA .
Rafale were equipped with IRST since at least F.1. F.4.1 got an entirely new IRST, which can also be clearly seen on close up pictures.
IRST is not installed on every single Rafale cause of multiple reason; Budget, Stock, Safety. Especially during peace time and Airshows (not counting Demos) it wouldn’t be equipped as its electronics are quite sensible and can be damaged during a rough landing.
I absolutely agree with this.
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