I personally just dont see it. F-35 is several times more stealthy than the rafale even though it is V-LO for a non-stealth aircraft it still isn’t fully stealth.
Furthermore the US claims the F-35’s radar is the best radar is has in service on a fighter IIRC.
Its basically stacked against the Rafale from the beginning without EW. If the F-35 gets 120C or D is gets even worse as it can reliably hit in excess on 100km.
I think without EW its just completely overconfident. Once EW is implemented then things like IRST and EW and flight performance play more of an effect particularly as SPECTRA is one of the better systems in service.
Take this with a grain of salt, this is supposed to be from educated guesses based on the RCS of the planes.
I would assume the Rafale to have a better radar than the Su-27.
(although I am not sure on that so feel free to correct me on that)
That would mean that the F-35 can be seen on radar as far as 60km out. Which when checking the current War Thunder maps, means you can pretty much see them immediately once you gain altitude.
Rafale is commonly compared to be around Typhoon level (very probably a little better but there are no hard figures and Mig-23M does disagree with that statament). Typhoon/Rafale/SuperHornet is stealthier than the Flanker family for sure.
We could presume they can both see eachother (with the F-35 likely having a stronger lock without EW factored in). The issue is not even necessarily with the Rafale’s own radar but with the missile seeker.
METEOR does not use an AESA seeker, neither does the current MICA although you could always use an IR, so the ARH’s may struggle once they go pitbull and it isn’t helped by the Rafale only having 1-way datalink.
Whereas the AIM-120 also does not have AESA but doesn’t necessarily need it.
Don’t take my opinion as fact of course, the guys initial question was an opinion statement.
As I’ve said with EW it becomes an entirely different situation.
At best you get a tradeoff where both can kill the other but its just gonna be easier for the F-35
The Rafale can basically be thought of as a halfway compromise between an F-15EX vs F-35 compromise. The best of both worlds while alao having the worst of both worlds.
Whatever category it is worse than the F-15EX at, it is better than the F-35 (like ground pounding). Whatever it is worse than the F-35 at, it is better than the F-15EX at.
I don’t like to comment too much on the air to air differences until both planes come into the game. But I will say this, the Rafale has more air to air missiles, and also more potent air to air missiles. The Meteor as well as the eventual MICA NGs are better than anything the US has in service at this time.
While the F-35 is fully stealth, the Rafale would be able to rely on its MAWS, LWS, RWR, radar, IRST/TV and the sensor fusion suite to be able to locate and track the F-35 for targeting solutions.
Bug reports are already set up for the Rafale to get an RCS of 0.01m^2. But this would only matter for clean RCS anyway. It goes out the window when weapons/fuel tanks are on it. The clean RCS would help once the Rafale dumps all of its missiles and needs to escape back to base.
I mean, allegedly the Meteor missile makes extensive use of composite materials to also try to be stealthy, for the same benefit. So that shouldn’t impact the RCS too much. Another benefit would be that the Meteor shows up on radar when it’s too late.
I also saw recently that the next gen of rafale coming 2030+, i think will use a new type of radar (low frequency I think) which should be able to to see the stealth aircraft at a way bigger range
I would mention that the F-35 has all of these systems too but yes.
It does supposedly incorporate lessons from Storm Shadow so it will have some degree of RCS reduction particularly as only 2 of the 4 aircraft that use it have semi-recessed pylons (EF and KF-21).
It is useful for targeting, slight double edged sword as it uses a Laser rangefinder for ranging and both the F-35 and Rafale have LWS, but then again does it matter if both of them know each-other is there anyway, for guiding something like a MICA IR it should be fine regardless.
I think (but i can’t say for sure, so take it with a pinch of salt) the OSF can also guide MICA EM and Meteors. Although probably with a non optimal range compared to your usual non stealth target tracked by the radar
It can guide both using datalink, although the Rafale has 1-way datalink which is worse than 2-way datalink and I read it (1-way) cannot provide effective if any guidance during the terminal phase (when the missile may otherwise be pitbull which is when the Rafale would need it the most in our hypothetical), but I’m not sure how true it is about the 1-way datalink not being able to provide terminal guidance, so do take it with a pinch of salt.
from my understanding, the data given by OSF, radar and other sensors are fusionned. So long as a sensor gives you a bearing and range, you can theorically give this data to any missile through datalink, be it IR or Radar guided.
The way i understand it, the EMTI mentionned in the paragraph is a program that takes as input any data coming from a sensor (MICA IR seeker, OSF, RBE2 AESA, SPECTRA, Link 16…) and basically compiles this data. The compiled data is then returned to the pilot via display or sent through datalink to a missile for example.
Now obviously, assuming the data sent by the OSF to the EMTI is enough to guide a MICA EM or a METEOR, it will still be degraded, since the OSF probably has a worst range relative to the RBE2 AESA against a non stealth target
Just to get back on this, and even if i’m fairly certain this video is not a source in itself :
In this sequence (starting at 8’33"), ATE, who used to be pilot on Rafale M and SUE, mentions the RBE2 AESA, the meteor missile, and stealth planes. One sentence is “if you [the “baddies” in this context] switch your afterburner on, you’ll be seen ([through OSF, he mentions it before] and we [the “goodies”] will be able to shoot a meteor”.
NOTE : subtitles are available for non french speakers
This means that shooting a meteor through OSF only is most likely possible, although probably not as efficient as using the radar since i’d guess OSF has less range than radar itself
