The FCS on the CV90 is the UTAAS (Saab receives order for sight and fire control system). Without a video tracking module the UTAAS can’t aim the gun at tracked targets.
Yes? I used the video tracker as an example of the modules that can be connected to the fire control computer.
The vtm sends its video to the fire control then the fire control makes adjustments, same as the janus system.
Though you should check the date on the vtm and utaas sight, vtm modules are usually only used to bridge older analog systems such as the ones on the strf9040 or amv (bmp-3), modern digital systems don’t need them.
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This is the part that needs proven. The JANUS doesn’t state:
For their non- FCS version.
This is the confusion regarding the naval version- The janus system mounted on the cv90/freccia connects to the fcs that is already present in the vehicle (the one the vtm would connect to) rather than requiring the fcs to be provided with the sensor.
See ‘AEP-4754 Volume II fig 2’ The sensor sends data to the main computer, then the main computer acts from there.
You’ll note the nvga interface and the naval one share a similar topology.
I.e the janus system automatically tracks the target, but the adjustment is handled by the fcs.
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So then the FCS would need to inherently be able to do the automatic gun laying for a tracked target. Something we have zero proof of for the CV90.
So we’re back to square one.
You already said it had that capability, so I was only arguing the track.
"Regarding the air tracking it is a historical thing as well as the specific tracking used by the CV90’s not being optical tracking but instead laser range finder and trigonometry calculations for a turret aim “cruise control” so to speak.
All the cv90’s have automatic lead compensation, it’s even visible in the aa videos where the operator tracks the target and the fcs leads, the janus or vtm just provide the track in stead of the operator.
And this is ignoring the fact thet the cv90mk3 and mk4 are digital, meaning the computer can drive the gun however the operator decides.
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I would like to point out here that you said “Without a video tracking module the UTAAS can’t aim the gun at tracked targets.” and then posted a slide which contains the line “Saab’s in-service Video tracker module” paired with a picture of a cv9035 that we have in game.
Which makes it pretty clear that the decision to not give the cv90’s the “in service” capability is a dev choice rather than a historical one.
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The trig-tracking is not a functionality we have in the game and requires two laser pulses manually sent by the gunner to initiate the “cruise control”. If the target then changes direction the “track” doesn’t follow, it will continue to adjust rotation/elevation/distance as if the target is continuing in a straight line. It’s not a mechanic that exists in the game. It’s also quite different from optical tracking.
The video tracker module is in service on the track fire remote weapon station systems (as an example the combat boat 90 uses it).
We haven’t found any proof that it is in service in any of the CV90’s.
and its still not correct
Typical snail moment time to make another report
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vjnmMw573FCg
here is my report if you need more info
the problem is actual sources are lacking its just logics which these bug report ppl dont have
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? You claimed that there was some research about the video tracker being used on the lvkv, which is represented in game, while the picture in the slide very clearly indicates its use on the sight of a cv90mkiii with the 35mm gun.
The module is a video tracker, not a fire control system. It is used to find and track the targets, which is the same thing the janus system does.
Currently, in game, the janus system is represented as being able to track targets on the freccia (a function explicitly stated as being present in the version used on afv’s) and the cv90 is represented as being able to guide it’s gun based on a provided track in the lvkv9040c.
Blockquote The trig-tracking is not a functionality we have in the game and requires two laser pulses manually sent by the gunner to initiate the “cruise control”. If the target then changes direction the “track” doesn’t follow, it will continue to adjust rotation/elevation/distance as if the target is continuing in a straight line. It’s not a mechanic that exists in the game. It’s also quite different from optical tracking.
The janus system provides the optical track and uses a high frequency laser rangefinder for the range portion, a continuous track plus the aim correction is the aa target tracking feature used in game.
Correct.
(Google translated, from this archived page from the Swedish defence forces website: https://web.archive.org/web/20260112065938/https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/information-och-fakta/materiel-och-teknik/mark/luftvarnskanonvagn-90/ )
The UTAAS yes, the video tracking module for UTAAS no. They are separate and the video tracking module needs to be installed as well for the tracking to work, something we have no proof of.
Incorrect, the video tracking module is needed both for the track (finding and identifying targets within the video, same as JANUS) AND for the calculations and fire control commands to be sent to the electronic turret drives (as far as anyone has been able to find, anything else is speculation). it is integrated into both because UTAAS is both the sight AND the FCS. Confusingly enough UTAAS= Universal Tank & Anti Aircraft Sight as well as UTAAS = Universal Tank and Anti Aircraft System . Its the name for both the sight and the FCS.
Do you know that there isn’t something else provided as proof for the freccia’s tracking? is it just the JANUS and nothing else that has been used as a source to give it tracking in-game?
Because the LVKV90 has proof of having the video tracking module installed on one of it’s tech demonstrators so Gaijin decided to add it to the in-game vehicle as well. No other CV90 version has proof of the module being isntalled.
You’re forgetting the need for a translating part of the FCS that is able to take the information provided by the JANUS and lay the gun to those coordinates. That is the part we have no proof for. At best what we have with the JANUS would be IR-radar like the one on the Ozelot.
Edit:
In all of BAE’s promotional videos (that i’ve looked through more times than i can count) on the CV90 Mk.IV they never mention tracking. Example:
A lot of what you are doing here is assumptions and speculations. Which without proof is in this context meaningless.
So you understand that the utaas(fcs) can lay the gun when connected to a compatible video tracker module, that the janus is a video tracking module which is attached to the utaas(fcs), and that the natovga standard requires the two to be compatible.
Where is the disconnect here?
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Yes.
It’s a panoramic sight with tracking abilities. That does not mean that it inherently can send gun laying commands to the gun controls via the FCS.
Compatible doesn’t mean that a specific functionality exists.
The gun laying ability to the tracked targets. There is no such ability described for the UTAAS or the JANUS alone. JANUS requires an FCS capable of doing that, the UTAAS isn’t inherently capable of doing that without an extra module that adds that functionality (a functionality the JANUS doesn’t itself have)
Here is Tarkan Turkcan “Director of CV90 Platforms at BAE systems Hagglunds” Claiming that the utaas system automatically lases the target to continuously compute the lead angle, “Follow the target, you las, and now suddenly the laser starts to pulsate. So now it’s actually calculating a 3d flight path instead of just a lead angle.” He does this before also mentioning that the commander sight has auto tracking and auto detection.
So please, give me my ir radar that also gives me target tracking and lead angle.
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That is exactly the “cruise control” i described before that we do not have a mechanic for in the game.