Chieftain Mk 10, Chieftain 900 and T-72M1 Battle Ratings

[rainy2000]

@SwingfireOP

Possibly a much lower number of matches, by players who have been playing longer and continue to play.

@AlanHR

Maybe because E-100 has around 10% of total games Maus has. That small amount of games is probably not considered game breaking.

And you’re probably both right, and I agree with you two.
So sample size also matters too, not just SL gain.

[MotorolaCRO]

@SwingfireOP

For example, say a 10.3 vehicle survives on average 4.5 minutes, has on average 1.1 kills per spawn and experiences 1.3 penetrations on average before death then something lasting 3.8 minutes would stand out, same if something lasted 8 minutes on average with 1.8 kills per death would also stand out.

This would mark those vehicles that rely on sniping as overperforming.

@SwingfireOP

I.e if a vehicle requires on average (with sufficient data set size) significantly more penetrating hits to its target to get the kill over one which doesn’t then that would require looking at.

You can’t do this if you don’t account for ease of penetration of rounds, as some shells trade post-pen damage for raw penetration.

[MotorolaCRO]

@rainy2000

Either they forgot about it or they understand that demographic and use cases of vehicles vary, and they don’t just use SL gain for balancing.

I’m pretty sure they’re well aware that rare event vehicles aren’t comparable to TT ones when it comes to it’s player base, same with vehicles from minor nations. They also use more things than just SL for balance.

While we’re here, we’d like to give some additional context behind Battle Ratings and how they’re decided. Battle Ratings are decided based on how much a vehicle earns, but this is not purely economical.

If a vehicle has high efficiency, it’s outperforming its contemporaries in multiple ways the majority of times it spawns on the map, and as a result may have to be increased in Battle Rating. Whereas a vehicle with low efficiency is not performing well across the board against what it fights, and may be moved down. However this is not purely a data driven process, we often consider additional factors such as the volume of players using a certain vehicle, its lineup, new features that may be altering performance in different ways etc

[ObiWan_KoH]

Imagine trying to claim the L15A3 is a 10.0 round. LMAO. An APDS with its lack of spall, tendency pen and do nothing or being stopped by a simple track is a 10.7 round to you. LMAO.

And yes, all Chieftains bar the 900 are slow. If you’ve decided on a path on the map, you cannot really intervene somewhere that’s not close by in case you need to. So yeah, they are slow.

[Heavytanker1945]

@MotorolaCRO

This would mark those vehicles that rely on sniping as overperforming.

Take a moment to look at the origin of this thread, and the two Vehicles that are Specifically built to snipe being needlessly moved up…

[MotorolaCRO]

Please do re-read what we’ve talked about.

[SwingfireOP]

@MotorolaCRO

This would mark those vehicles that rely on sniping as overperforming.

Nah. They would stand out as lots of hits / penetrations to targets but very few hits. Easy to spot.

The point of the system is to balance the vehicles, not player actions.

@MotorolaCRO

You can’t do this if you don’t account for ease of penetration of rounds, as some shells trade post-pen damage for raw penetration

Yes, and that would show up in the number of penetrating hits which didn’t kill the target and the number of penetrations required to kill the target. If a tank is penetrating a target but not killing it significantly more than average then something should change, unless it also survives a load of hits which don’t penetrate which would weight the br decision more towards not moving it.

All factors would be taken into account for the br calculation, along with some sanity checking of course.

Is the system perfect? Of course not, no system is but it would be far better than using average earnings. It would be a huge amount of work for gaijin, and would require a statistics people and probably some data scientists (I loathe that term) but it is truely remarkable the meaning you can tease out of a sufficiently large data set.

[MotorolaCRO]

@SwingfireOP

They would stand out as lots of hits / penetrations to targets but very few hits

If you assume they have more chances to shoot at people while being shot at less.

@SwingfireOP

The point of the system is to balance the vehicles, not player actions.

Player actions and how vehicles are played is directly affected by vehicles themselves.

@SwingfireOP

If a tank is penetrating a target but not killing it significantly more than average then something should change

Your system is biased towards things that do just that and flag them as underperformers, when in reality it’s a simple tradeoff. You’d need to introduce a weighing system for stuff like that, which is the hard part.

As an example:
Average shell for that BR has a 40% chance to penetrate things, but 80% of penetrations result in a kill.
Shell A has a 90% chance to penetrate things, but 40% of penetrations result in a kill.

Your system would see that shell A is dogshit and buff it somehow, probably by increasing it’s damage output which could make it seriously OP at it’s BR, where you’d have nuke-lolpen shell in one.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@poopooo

M111 at BR8.0,

is worse than 774 actually.

[poopooo]

Well, unless I’ve forgotten, there isn’t a single tank with the M774 in Br8.0, 8.3, or 8.7. On the other hand, there are several tanks that use the M111 or equivalent rounds as their best ammunition, even up to Br9.0. You’re comparing two bullets from different eras: the M111 (1978) and the M774 (1980).

By the way, thanks to checking the ammunition and battle ratios, I’ve noticed something funny: both the Shot Kal Dalet and the M60A3TTS have the same battle ratio, but while the Shot Kal Dalet is stuck with the M111, the American M60A3 has the M774 and the Taiwanese one has the DM33. Two things are clear: one, the developers assign battle ratios to tanks in a shameful way, and two, my opinion that the Shot Kal Dalet should have the M413 was correct.

In short, the developers have an immense amount of work to do rebalancing tanks, giving them historical ammunition, and so on, but since it’s so much work, they just forget about it and let things stay as they are, because they need to make easy money with new premium tanks.