I refuse to play it, waste of time
I don’t understand how Gaijin is so unbelievable stubborn when it comes to needing 1 Primary 2 Secondary sources when LITERALLY every nation aside from Soviet Union/Russia has very limited sources on the performance of their vehicles. Some vehicles don’t even have 3 sources to go off.
If they put effort into making minor nations vehicles actually good and not just torturous to play, more people would play Britain,China,Italy,France,Japan,Isreal and would be more willing to spend money on those premium vehicles (I’m looking at the OES and Premium Merkavas).
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I agree, it’s quite insane that they want OEM manuals when they themselves stated that War Thunder will be adding vehicles in service. There are many bug reports which have more than enough information, some that they even acknowledged - which still haven’t come through.
Such as the ZTL-11 reverse speed and it having only 1 reverse gear. (Actual insanity).
And this is all they have to say.
They’re completely aware that there is a problem, but they continue to be stubborn. (Report is over 2 years old, as you can see). This is a continued trend and we’ve seen the same thing happen surrounding the Challenger’s hull ammo exploding, the Ariete’s 5.5 ton WAR kit made to stop APFSDS still being modeled as composite screen with a 0.1x KE modifier, and others.
(The WAR kit should obviously have a 1x KE modifier and its mass makes it clear that it’s mostly RHA, RHA density is 7.8 grams per cubic centimeter (g/cm³) - you can basically extrapolate basic figures from there and get 200mm+ of effective armor against KE, yet it’s ~20mm effective in-game, for the tank that needs a buff the most out of all.)
There’s many issues in the game that anyone with common sense would never allow to happen.
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Common sense? What’s that…. I would let mind as much if not for the fact they still haven’t even fixed the ce protection for the TES. Should be +1000mm ce protection and yet we’re stuck with somewhere around 650mm against the side including the actual side armour of the chally plus (the now aluminium) backing plate….
I keep dying to bmp 2ms hitting my era plates knowing damn well they can because they mean jack shit, along with 30mm aphe rounds going right through all of that nera/era, aluminium and side armour that does provide more than 68mm of pen.
Especially when we have sources like this that state the ROMOR B passive armour provides similar protection levels to stillbrew…. And with VARMA that can stop mango rounds out from 1500m from penning an m48… even using the worst value possible it would still come out to about a ke value of almost 1…. But here we are with Russian era providing a flat 120mm of extra armour despite the era becoming useless irl if penetrated perpendicular…. Which isn’t modelled in game as that would be far too much for gaijin and would nerf the already struggling Russians.
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my post about a t-80bvm being penned straight through the front plate with 3bm60 got flagged and removed because it doesn’t fit with their propaganda statements. lol.
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There should be liberties taken with NATO vehicles.
I don’t want NATO vehicles to be overpowered or meta as the Leopards/Strvs are currently, I just want the minor vehicles to be better. If Gaijin would decide “Hey these vehicles only have 2 documents, thats not enough to model XYZ, lets give it to them anyways for balance and game play reason.”
I want to play Merkavas, Leclercs, CR2s, Arietes but I don’t want to needlessly suffer more than I have to. Sure I have good stats in the CR2 but that doesn’t mean I enjoy playing them. I want variety, but the other options are nonexistent currently.
Because in top tier, if your not play Strv/leopard/BVM/M1A2 your actively hampering yourself.
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Problem is… They see the Chally 2 as perfectly balanced and thus it doesn’t need a buff
Bout as balanced as my lead lined swimming suit
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Unfortunately its seen that way. Just as balanced as Merkavas and Arietes are.
Merkava armour = STRV 122s armour in Gaijin land.
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So i’ve been looking at the collision mesh we have in-game and been going through to see whether the thicknesses of the mesh matches up with the plate thicknesses stated on the in-game armour view.
It seems the mesh is accurate to the representation in-game with each plate I checked being modeled in the mesh at the in-game thickness.
With the collision mesh being accurate to the representation in game, the volume of it would be what you’d expect were you to calculate the volume of the armour plates based on the in-game thicknesses. The volume of the mesh can be found quite easily as shown:
Giving a volume of 7.8895m^3 (just measuring the steel plates)
Quick calculation using a higher end estimate for density of RHA (2.2gcm^-3) puts the weight of armour steel at 17.35tons, seems pretty low for a 62.5ton tank.
What was not included in above measurement:
- Composite arrays (<3t if solid RHA)
- Armoured bins (<0.2t RHA)
- Gun including breech (1.8t Wikipedia)
- Engine (1.9t from perkin brochure)
- Transmission (<1.5t if solid RHA)
- Rad (<2.5t if solid RHA)
- Exterior decor(exhaust, lights etc. <1t)
- Tracks (<3.1t if solid RHA)
- Internals except from armoured bulkheads
It is essentially just the base steel plates that make up the model and all have been considered RHA.
Side note:
Spoiler
Total volume of the mesh (not including dozer and upgrade packages) is 28.445m^3, which if you assume everything is a solid block of RHA, including the engine, rad, transmission, NERA arrays, crew, ammo, fuel tanks. tracks, wheels and optics, gives a total weight of 62.6tons:
Seems a bit daft that taking the entire back half of the hull (and most the turret internal due to crew and breech) as a solid block of steel is only just enough to get the model up to the tanks actual weight.
I find it hard to believe that the parts not modelled (electronics, crew stowage, water tank, apu etc) are enough to account for the weight discrepancies.
I have a strong suspicion that the base armour plates are missing a fair bit of thickness, one such example being these “38mm” hull sides which are thinner than the rear plate in-game:
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It may just be me but 38mm of rha doesn’t seem like enough structural support to be holding up a 75 tonne tank. What I think gaijin forget is composite has a lot of rha in it already, maybe even HHS could nsidering the whole point being as light as possible for its armour equivalent. Thing is it’s easy to model Russian tanks as their doctrine was to have mass produced tanks that are relatively easy to build and maintain. We opted for the best that we can manage, laminating layer after layer after layer of steel and composite materials, doing so increase protection while allowing multiple shots in close proximity. We wouldn’t use new composites if old ones were better so why is it stillbrew is better than our side composites? Russians get side composite so what would be broken about it? It would do its job, making the tank survivable from a slightly wider angle which is what it was for…… just ranting at this point but it’s just tiring. I want to be able to have some fun at top tier without instantly giving up as soon as the enemy have taken more than half the map as pushing them back is impossible from then on.
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I assume this suppose to show the different in thermal signature with the blankets on?
True dude
The real armoured charge bins weighed 840 kg more than whatever the original GRP charge bins weighed. So their total mass can’t possibly have been 200 kg in real life.
Okay here me out, first we need them to make the camouflage nets on the 2F and TES actually look good, then they need to give them the thermal blankets as a test
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Most of the maps truly are ancient looking polygon and asset wise. Like air battles has triagonal hills.
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It is seriously all on purpose, it is pointless asking them to improve anything, all I have ever seen on this forum is gaslighting tactics from the mods and devs. This game is literally just designed as a giant Russian coping strategy which also serves to milk money from people. The only good thing about it is how accessible the gameplay is and the talent of whoever makes the visual models of the vehicles however even that gets lazy in some areas.
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In the end I’m beginning to realise we should’ve seen this mantlet debacle incoming because Gaijin hate adding trunnion blocks lol. Consider the Centurion 10 and the Pattons.
1 Like