Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion (Part 1)

[Jεcka]

@John_Sneeeeeeeew

About 2 people are asking for it in the UK tree, other people are arguing why it could come to the UK. The 2 actually arguing for it to come to the UK are actually Canadian as well.

Where they’re from is completely irrelevant, the amount of people asking for it is in itself also not important.

I’m looking for the source.

[Jεcka]

@Firestarter__

What, so you’re actually taking the 2 people who are doing that seriously? not to mention one of them is probably doing it just to see the Germans cry harder (which is hilarious imo, look where we are now, we have people like the above trying to get a Challenger in a German tree)

You’re taking what Godvana’s doing at face value? Alright that’s quite funny since to my knowledge he’s doing that only to see British mains piss themselves. Seems like it worked out quite well tbh (n fact he only started doing it as a response to y’all demands for Leopard 2s).

by your (daft) logic that means the Americans get a claim to Ajax because the company that made it has the words “General Dynamics” in its name

You’re just answering criticism with criticism now lmao. Man, British mains are just the best - all it takes to rail y’all up is a single counter-argument that isn’t even good, but you will go into a frenzy anyways.

All I can hear is a whole lot of copium. Might I suggest you get outta here before you make yourself look like a complete circus as opposed to the clown you are right now

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

@FurinaBestArchon

Where they’re from is completely irrelevant, the amount of people asking for it is in itself also not important.

Well it seems to matter when ‘select few German mains’ want a Cr2

@FurinaBestArchon

I’m looking for the source.

So you quoted something without a source, I think that is called making it up

[Firestarter]

@FurinaBestArchon

Alright that’s quite funny since to my knowledge he’s doing that only to see British mains piss themselves. Seems like it worked out quite well tbh (n fact he only started doing it as a response to y’all demands for Leopard 2s).

Are you doubly sure? Because to my knowledge he’s just stupid lmao

@FurinaBestArchon

Man, British mains are just the best

You should see the Germans when it comes to air. God that’s funny.

[Jεcka]

@John_Sneeeeeeeew

Well it seems to matter when ‘select few German mains’ want a Cr2

I’ve only seen Godvana “ask for it”, and thanks to a funny concept called insider knowledge I know that he’s baiting you people.

So you quoted something without a source, I think that is called making it up

Call it whatever you want idrc, I can have quotes at a ready even if the source isn’t at a hand’s reach, but honestly I no longer feel obliged to provide you with it due to your baseless hostility, I suggest curbing your anger next time o7

[Jεcka]

@Firestarter__

Are you doubly sure? Because to my knowledge he’s just stupid lmao

Name calling now?

[Lord_Roger_Roger]

What’s the point of baiting when it’ll make people upset

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

@FurinaBestArchon

I’ve only seen Godvana “ask for it”, and thanks to a funny concept called insider knowledge I know that he’s baiting you people.

Making a full suggestions seems like an awful lot of effort for bait.

@FurinaBestArchon

Call it whatever you want idrc, I can have quotes at a ready even if the source isn’t at a hand’s reach, but honestly I no longer feel obliged to provide you with it due to your baseless hostility, I suggest curbing your anger next time o7

You have the quotes but not the sources… might want to amend that so people don’t say you are making things up. I don’t think I’m being hostile at all, just saying provide sources.

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

Arguing on the forums is just stupid, it really doesn’t matter if its bait or not though, if people don’t agree they will make their opinion heard. But again for bait this seems like a lot of effort, and again baiting people who arent even arguing that the 2A4M should be in the UK tree, rather people who just say it could.

[Jεcka]

https://www.hartpunkt.de/kampfpanzer-der-zukunft-leopard-3-im-anmarsch/

Here’s the source.

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

As I said to Godvana, suggestions are up for it to come to both countries, gaijin will decide where it goes. It wont come for a long time, especially after what they did with the Cr3TD

[warhead_beast]

@FurinaBestArchon

Except it does:

“1. It is unclear whether the so-called bridge solution will be a Leopard 2 AX or a Leopard 3. The decision on this will probably only be made after the R&T studies that are being prepared have been completed, as part of which, among other things, the 130mm cannon from Rheinmetall is to be fully developed.”

Where in this paragraph says it, that there is a official requirement from Germany for a new tank with a 130mm gun?
You do realize that the article discouses what the next Tank could be right? It isn’t even sure on the Naming, if it’s Leo 3, MGCS, Leo 2AX, Leo 2A8 that’s how unsure we are to this date so no, there is no official requirement.

“Einen solchen Kampfpanzer dann noch Leopard 2 A9, A10, oder Leopard 2+ zu nennen, wäre dann genauso konsequent, als hätte man zur Einführung des Leopard 2 diesem den Namen Leopard 1+ verpasst. So etwas würde, wenn überhaupt, dann aus politischen Gründen geschehen. Faktisch wäre ein solcher Kampfpanzer ein Leopard 3, wenn man denn die eingeschlagene Raubkatzenbenennung weiterführen will.”

Leopard 3 again remains a private venture by Rheinmetall until ordered or officially examined by WTD der Bundeswehr.
Also maybe post a source to your quotes, makes it better to follow

@FurinaBestArchon

Very clear that despite there not having been a decision made for MGCS yet, Germany does not intent to go with the French 140mm at all.

There is a difference between intend and actual requirements. You can intend what you want but the fact is
“Da die Einigung politisch gewollt war, wurde ein Kompromiss formuliert, der besagt, dass beide Varianten der Bewaffnung fertigentwickelt werden und im Anschluss gegeneinander getestet werden sollen, bevor eine Entscheidung gefällt wird. Ein eindeutiger Beleg dafür, dass eine Entscheidung im hier und jetzt gescheut und auf die Zukunft vertagt wurde.”
Kampfpanzer der Zukunft – Leopard 3 im Anmarsch?

[花谱_kaf]

@FurinaBestArchon

Leopard 2A6Ms

Haha, why don’t you argue with Italy and Sweden about the Hungarian leopard 2A7HU KF51-120 Finnish leopard 2A6NL Norwegian leopard 2A8NOR Danish leopard 2A7DK should not join?
Is it because British tree players are easy to bully?

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

Italy will get the 2A8 and the 2A7HU.
Sweden will get the Finnish and Norwegian Leopards.
Denmark’s Leopards could go to Germany, but I see the danish sub tree being put into sweden to keep the nordic countries together.

[warhead_beast]

@FurinaBestArchon

is a bridge project that’s official

Yes the project exists officially. What does not exist official are the specs and requirements.

@FurinaBestArchon

Leopard 2Ax/3 is quoted to likely include a 130mm (as such equipping your future MBT i.e MGCS with a 140mm makes very little sense from a calibre commonality point).

That is the entire point of the article, it makes an educated GUESS. It also is entirely possible that the BMVg stays with L55A1 to keep costs down as non sensible this would be.

So again no official requirement just educated guesses by a media outlet.

[Jεcka]

@warhead_beast

Yes the project exists officially.

Leopard 3 again remains a private venture by Rheinmetall

The dichotomy of forum users.

So again no official requirement just educated guesses by a media outlet.

Sure, we can look at it from such an angle too, but we can also look at Pistorius’ statements and conclude early that they have already decided, and MGCS will likely produce two variants - one with a German gun (for Germany) and one with a French gun (for France, duh).

Though I reckon armament will be interchangeable since both turret will have to comply with the hull’s requirements & design parameters… that are wholey in Germany’s hands.

[Godvana]

No German player wants Challenger. It’s a mediocre tank, in game and in reality. There is only one thing that makes this particular Challenger worthwhile, and that’s its gun, which just so happens to be designed, built and tested by Germany. If you guys are really clamouring for these scraps of German tech then maybe you are playing the wrong tech tree…

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

Again, I don’t think anybody here is trying to claim a german tank for the british tech tree.

[warhead_beast]

So far we have ordered 18 2A8 to be delivered in 2026.

In a 2020 interview with Frank Lobitz they spoke about requirements which would be whished for like RWS, Hardkill APS, new engine and FCS. But again nothing about it required to have a 130mm main gun.

Bundeswehr introduces Leopard 2A7V into service – Below The Turret Ring

Der Kampfpanzer Leopard 2 A7V – Aufwuchs bei den gepanzerten Kampftruppen

But the actual official requirements for the Brückenlösung aka 2AX/ 3/ whatever are likely not to be decided on until 2026.
https://www.hartpunkt.de/vom-leopard-2-a8-zum-mgcs-bundeswehr-plant-mit-brueckenloesung/

@FurinaBestArchon

The dichotomy of forum users.

You do hopefully now understand:

1. There is a official project for a gap filler planned between 2A8 and MGCS.
2. This gap filler however at its current state has no official requirements, with the requirements not expected to release until 2026
3. Companies like KNDS or Rheinmetall are developing multiple technologies such as the 130mm gun in private without any government contract in the hopes to sell tanks that have those technologies. That in turn does not mean automatically than Germany will buy those technologies. Otherwise this would mean the Bundeswehr would now operate KF51 Panther just because it was developed by a German company.

(Ironically same situation as with the KF41 Lynx in game where the KF51 if it comes should go to Hungary since they have officially ordered the further development of it. And guess what it won’t come with the 130mm but the L55A1 120mm

Rheinmetall

)

So if we now take everything together: there is no official requirement for a tank with the 130mm Rheinmetall L/51 at this point in time. And also no tank ordered with this gun from Germany for the Bundeswehr.

[John_Sneeeeeeeew]

At this point just go to a leopard thread