Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion (Part 2)

Subtrees as a whole are fucked

South Africa as a subtree was a bad idea but the way that the Hungarian and BENELUX were added was just pure spite and laziness, they add very little new to the game, they make the Copy-Paste problem worse and they make the game worse overall.

South Africa should have come as its own tech tree, unique Hungarian vehicles should have been added to Italy in a way similar to how Israel was in the US and BENELUX should be split between the nations who designed the vehicles they use, e.g. Leopards to Germany.

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hmm while I agree, I gotta say, as of recently ive just scraped my KD back from 0.5 to 0.9 so im near a 1.0 KD in GRB.

The Leopard 2a7v I think isn’t that “hard” to kill, but it presents a larger challange than the average wt player is capable of.

Leopards are actually quite easy to take out, just breach shot it and then go to work.

Summery : I don’t actually think the tank is hard to kill, but people struggle to kill it? If that makes sense.
More a player issue than a tank issue, it also sacrifices quite a chunk of the mobility the 2a5 and 6 offer 68 KPH > 61 KMPH is quite a drop.

Yeah I wasn’t gonna debate that at all, the better of the CR2’s will inevitably be in the 2a7 bracket while the worse of them will be just below it e.g if the 2a7 is 12.3 the CR2E or BN would be 12.0 and the CR2 11.7 so its always gonna be there.

How is it out of pity?

I explained why it kinda sucks.

Genuinely im part of the people wanting the removal of India and the replacement with Canada as it makes next to no sense.

Ofc agree man, im more iterating the point that gaijin seems to have no semblance of balance for any nation, not just like some think one nation.

Most of NL should of just went to germany for how connected the two nations are military wise

I agree, but… 10.7 tends to get fairly consistent uptiers to 11.7, especially after the CAS BR changes where 12.0 is usually uptiered too.

10.3 though, gets downtiers most often and you only really loose out on the L26 slingers which whilst good, make up only a small part of that overall BR

So that’s why I get so many uptiers from 8.7 to 9.3… makes sense

eh 9.3 is a strong area rn quite enjoy my 9.3 “lineup” for china, russia, britain and germany

See I dont mind that too much seeing as the L26 rounds up there with nearly on par stats to Jm33 so its all good for me.

makes me wonder though did leopard 2A4 use the DM33 , or was it straight to DM43 for it?
cause in game DM23 feels like its an older round and would of been replaced quickly

I have no idea about German tanks and perhaps, I still find fighting some of them though rather annoying like the Fuji with the 4 second reload

the L26 angle pen is nearly that of 11.3 tanks, its got what 276 angle pen? the Jm33 sits at 283 or something to that affect.

The Type 90 is a different can of worms but it shoudl really have moved up along with the TKX to 11.7 at this stage, we should get the BR of 12.3 or 12.7 for GRB, or what are they saying? the TKX (P) is equal to that of the M1A2 abrams?

Yeah, CR2 and to a lesser extent CR1s biggest fix is decompression

DM43 was purely export, germany never even used that one themself. I think DM33 and DM53 would be the 2a4 rounds

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Yeah I couldn’t remember what way around it was, Infact it may have been you that told me before.

The Dm43 was exported, So realistically Dm33 could be fired by the 2a4?

The Cr1s IMO are quite alright at thier Brs
The 2 is a bit of a different story like it is a struggle bus sometimes.

only DM73 and upwards is restricted those required the L/44A1 or L/55A1 cannon

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So why realistically does the leopard 2A4 not get even at least the DM33, and the abrams the, m883 or whatever it is to put their rounds on par with that of,
CR1, T80B, ZTZ 96A, and most the other 10.7 tanks, hell 3BM42 is found at even 9.7

I I get the leopard 2a4 is a strong tank but it really shouldn’t be arbitrarily nerfed just for balance, make it what it should be and balance around it.

dunno, even then there is so many leopard variants, even different leopard 2a4 batch versions, you could easily add higher br ones with better ammo etc.
Gajins just against it. i find it highly unfair that US and russia get new high rank air addition every patch.
But other nations like china and germany which have a gian ground industry dont get the ground additions in turn

Would like to see that, same as I’d like to see some of hte other centurion variants, vickers variatns like the valiant
and those leopard 1a3s and 1a4s which are missing but look absolutely phenomenal

Gotta love that, germany that has absolutely countless variants ofleopard, trialed etc
as well as the phenomenal amount of chinese tanks from the 80s till now!

It is pretty abhorrant TBH that the leave most other trees in the backround, even germany now adays is getting a bit slow on teh gear.
only reason I think the brought the EF2000 out was due to the fact the F4F ICE was ass for its BR

They are fine at their current BRs but would benefit nonetheless from 11.3-12.0 being fully decompressed, meaning the worst you’d face in a full uptiers are the weaker of the current 11.7s, rather than the full mix of good and bad 11.7s at the moment, including a few 11.7s that probably should be 12.0 if it wasn’t for things at 12.0 being too low. Likewise the mk2 would benefit from a few 11.0s and 11.3s being a little higher.

But yes ultimately the CR2s are the ones that are desperate for a decompress

and that only iirc, because of barrel wear.
So a factor that is not present in war thunder

Do we have any data/images on the presence of hull side spall liners for the Challenger 2?

We know it has UFP/LFP spall liners (LFP STILL NOT MODELLED???), but what about the sides?

It seems strange to do the full turret and hull front and then leave the sides completely vacant of spall liners.

L55 In combination with the Cr.2 gun shield, it gives a monstrous explosiveness for the hull-down gamplay.
image

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