Not gonna chin the guy randomly trying to cause an argument over the cr2?
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Well, what I said could be an exaggeration, but if we’re looking at the UFP of an tank like the T-72B the KE effectiveness vs LOS thickness is around 1 to 1.1x region higher than LOS, which is a positive KE modifier. I find it hard to believe that the Challenger 2’s UFP only provides around 0.8-0.9~. The Challenger 2’s UFP array thickness is 330mm and while that includes air gaps/probably rubber as well, but the T-72B’s UFP also has that and the array is over 100mm thinner, which is not enough to make up for the 8 degree difference in angle.
o7
Cheers, tired of folks arguing like babies on here over nothing to do with the game, sorry if the above comment sounded rude at all.
Spoiler
Whole different context and topic 😭
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It was Gunjob
Personally the BN is my favourite Chally 2 ingame and I think its very competitive.
Is it the best MBT in the game? no, but its certainly not the worst 12.0.
I’d take it over:
- Any Ariete
- Leo2A5/2A6
- Merkava Mk.4
- Maybe the T90M too I cannot stand the idea of 4kph reverse at top tier
Give it its realistic ready rack and hull spall liners, it should be fine.
However, Im mostly waiting for the later Challenger 3 prototypes to come which actually bring some impressive hull armour to the Challenger series. Sure they (might be) kinda slow, but I dont mind that.
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I agree. Moreover, in my case, Black Night is my favorite tank of the whole game)
Even after so many battles, I didn’t get bored playing it.
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I just wish the Ch2 would have a larger readyrack, the BN would be almost perfect (given its more defensive niche) with more than 4 rounds of its high rate of fire.
The APS is very fun when you get some heli player trying to kill you and they cant do anything.
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Yeah…
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ojFgCJ6Jnos4
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/nzUoCC2yxJx5
Or even just a ready rack replenishment time of more like 5-8 seconds rather than 20+
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While you prefer the BN these two are objectively better in almost every regard.
The BN has:
- Best APS in the game, neither of those even have APS.
- Better reload (5 vs 6s)
- Better optics (Afaik both leos have gen 1 gunner thermals, compared to the gen 3 of the BN)
- LWS
its mostly the APS which is extremely strong, it can intercept most APFSDS in the game at medium-long range. Gen 1 thermals at 12.0 is also pretty awful.
The Leos are faster and have a better shell, thats about all they do better. I would take a faster reload and an amazing APS over that any day.
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APS is range restricted and dependant on the projectile.
1800m± for a top tier round on many maps the engagement lanes are shorter.
Optics are great
LWS is nice to have.
ROF 5 seconds and then 7ish
Leopard 2A7/6 etc have:
Better mobility by a large margin
A superior round in DM-53 and a consitent 6 second reload rate
Better hull design, greater survivability
More chance of glancing a round off the armour.
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In range battles, BN is superior of any leo. + This is the most protected tank from CAS in game.
Yes, her niche of superiority is local, but that makes this tank very distinctive.
In the current reality, there is still such a factor as the Kh-38. Whether you’re on any leo, you’re least likely to be able to survive a raid by a weak soviet CAS. And the Iron Fist is capable of intercepting X-38 doublets into the side and quad launches into the forehead and stern.
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Yes you can intercept a KH-38 with the system and that is relevant and yes on large maps the APS system is good.
But, we know the next evolution of tanks Gaijin add are all going to have APS.
Leopard, T-90M and M1 will all have their respective APS, this change will make the BK nothing more than a CR2 with good thermals.
The peculiarity is that, as for the Trophy, what will be on the Abrams, Leo and all the other NATO tanks, and the arena from soviets is not a competitor to the Iron Fist at all.
The trophy is opened in duplet-lunches and has a colossally worse performance characteristics relative to the active protection of the Black Night. And the Arena is a tool only against ground ATGM and CAS missiles in still very limited angles.
At a distance of 1km+, there will be no difference for the BN player whether he sees Leo 2A7 or Leo with the trophy in his sights in terms of the ability to shoot him.
IF now and for perspective is top APS for NATO-units in game. The closest competitor in terms of in-game potential is Afghanite from the Soviets. But it will be heavily limited in anty-CAS protection zones.
But it will be just as good at working against kinetics at a distance.
As a result, we have only a few potential MBTs with IF for the game.:
Merkava with IF, Sabra Mk.2 with IF and KF-51U
Multiple armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles with IF, if my memory serves me correctly., use the IFLD - version without the kinetic interception option with a smaller mortar size, while the IFLK was supposed to be installed on MBT since it still requires heavy enough armor to contain a deflected projectile.
For four rounds. then its either 6 seconds aced or just over it.
With expert my CR2 past the ready racks over 7 seconds.
Gen one on the thermals, commander has 2nd gen I believe, but optics isnt just thermals its also magnification believe theyre similar in that regard, the 2E is far better than the 2a5 and 2a6 for magnification.
Id rather lose the LWS for DM53 especially the 2a6 as its the highest penning shell at top tier.
A quite niche feature that has saved me a handful of times.
id rather lose all of those for the over all better performance of the Leopard 2a5/6
Only on the gunners sight, commander has gen 2 or 3, both are about the same in game.
Hardly, they have more effective turret armour, they also don’t have as stupidely big a breach shot (all tanks have one)
The Reload is hardly anything to shout about, half the comments are about how its incredibly insufficient for the tanks to only have a 4 round ready rack, meaning you get only four rounds faster than a 2a5/6 then are on par or arguably worse.
As well as this, the ammo layout on the CR2s is pretty damn brutal for if a tank flanks or gets a hull shot.
The CR2’s are some of my favourite tanks in the world, behind colddwar gear like chieftains etc. In game they just aren’t it man .
I prefer my 2a5/6 at range than the CR2 BN, the L27A1 is far too anemic for the BR compared to the Dm53.
It’s one of, there are other tanks with APS which works fine against cas.
The APS on the BN is so highly regarded as it works against ground rounds etc.
Im sorry but any cas plane is a threat to all tanks, not just KH38 carriers.
I’ve died more to the damn rafale in my BN than su30 or SU34.
Depends if you’re in a position to get dunked on by cas like that regardless of the tank the CAS will win.
the leopards are better overall for GRB, whether you like the CR2 or not.
It’s 7-8 seconds for the CR2. The ready rack is too small and you will average 2 shots per target so the Leo takes the cake as it also has higher damage rounds
Not sure about CR2E optics but the Leo 2A6 and A7 have some of the best optics (zoom wise) at top tier, 3.0x - 12.0x zoom is very good
Only on the L/55 guns as they have better pen and velocity
It helps but with only 4 charges it is not very long lasting
You can live with Gen 1 thermals but I prefer the higher zoom
The Russians have a second launcher on the top of the T14 turret that they make out to intercept Air to Surface weapons, I don’t know if this is true but it does look similar to Trophy so it could be possible
Could we get L28 on the BN? If so, how much better is it than L27A1, if not, :(