And when are they going to increase the quantity of the first ammo rack?
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That’s not what was said at all? We are talking about the cross reference of penetration with ERA removed.
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None of these were fixed in their entirety if at all.
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So was it the developers intention to completely ignore the reports and do whatever they wish? Because if the correct numbers “weren’t finished” and the incorrect numbers were…
Challenger 3(P): armor missing and not align with the model was fixed: Community Bug Reporting System
There is a separate issue with alignment of the turret DM: Community Bug Reporting System
Spall liners were added as a result, however subsequently the reports were left open for other elements under further review.
Do you think there will be a future update that solely involves fixing existing armour models and bugs?
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This is done every major update and in a lot of minor updates too. There wont be a major update solely with just that, as that wouldn’t be a major update.
For example, in the coming major all of these fixes are included regarding just Vehicle model, damage model, characteristic and weaponry changes:
Spoiler
Ground Vehicle model, damage model, characteristic and weaponry changes
- BMPT-72, BMPT — a bug that caused the lack of ammunition bar display of the coaxial machine gun has been fixed.
- Churchill NA75 — the thickness of the commander’s turret hatch has been corrected from 19.5 mm and 25.4 mm to 20 mm.
- Centurion Mk.10, Strv 101 — the previously inactive commander’s machine gun can now be used. (Report , Report ).
- Sd.Kfz.234/2 TD — full name of the tank has been corrected.
- Calliope — the full tank name has been corrected to “Medium Tank M4 Sherman (Rocket Launcher T34E1 Calliope)”. (Report ). Source: TM 9-394, 4.5-inch Rocket Materiel for Ground Use.
- M1A1, M1A2 (all variants) — the reverse speed has been increased from 38 km/h to 40.2 km/h. Source: MCWP 3-12 Marine Corps Tank Employment; TC 21-306 Tracked Combat Vehicle Driver Training, April 2025.
- M1 Abrams (all variants) — the reverse speed has been increased from 38 km/h to 40.2 km/h. (Report ). Source: TM 9-2350-255-10-1 Operator’s manual for Tank, Combat, Full-tracked, 105-mm gun, M1 (2350-01-061-2445) General Abrams. April 1981.
- CV 9035DK — the machine gun has been changed to the MG3A1. (Report ).
- Striker — gunner optics magnification has been changed from 4x-8x to fixed 10x. (Report ).
- Type 75 MLRS — vertical and horizontal aiming angles have been corrected. Horizontal angles are now limited to 120° in both directions, and vertical have been corrected from -9°/+65° to -10°/+60°. (Report ).
- AMX-13-M24 — the ammunition for the 12.7 mm M2HB machine gun has been decreased from 1000 to 420 rounds, the ammunition for the 7.62 M1919A4 machine gun has been increased from 2000 to 3250 rounds. (Report ).
- M60 120S — a bug where the wheels were floating above the tracks has been fixed.
- FV4004, Conway — forward and reverse speeds have been adjusted. The forward speed has been decreased from 37.3 to 37.2 km/h, and the reverse speed has been increased from 12.1 to 12.9. (Report ).
- T77E1 — descriptions of armored partitions in the engine compartment have been corrected. (Report ).
- Centauro II (P) — machine gun elevation angles have been increased from +50° to +70°. Machine gun Depression angle has been increased from -5° to -20° in the sectors where the hull of the vehicle allows it. (Report ).
- Falcon — the forward speed has been decreased from 48 to 46.35 km/h and the reverse speed has been increased from 7.49 to 7.75. (Report ).
- Falcon — the maximum gun elevation angle has been decreased from 85° to 80°. Source: brochure FALCON, Vickers Defence Systems.
- Falcon — the magnification of the optics has been changed from x5.6-x6.0 to fixed x6.0. Source: brochure FALCON, Vickers Defence Systems.
- Type 03 (TEL) — a bug where the order in which missiles visually disappeared from the vehicle’s model and its X-ray view (missiles vanishing out of sequence as they were expended) has been fixed.
- M4A2 (all variants) — turret roof armor thickness has been increased from 19 mm to 25.4 mm. (Report ). Source: TM 9-731B Technical Manual Medium Tank M4A2, January 13, 1943.
- AEC Mk II — the maximum speed has been increased from 68 km/h to 78 km/h. (Report ).
- Strv m/41 S-II — engine power has been decreased from 165 to 160 HP, transmission gear rations have been corrected, maximum forward speed has been increased from 41 to 43 km/h, maximum reverse speed has been decreased from 6 km/h to 5.3 km/h. (Report ).
- Pz.III B — engine power has been increased from 265 to 300 HP. (Report ).
- AMX-13 (FL11), E.B.R. (1951), E.B.R. (1963) — the thickness of the turret’s sides and roof has been increased from 10 mm and 20 mm respectively to 25 mm. (Report ).
- T-44-122 — the description of the internal bulkhead between the crew and engine compartments has been corrected from composite to rolled homogeneous armor. (Report ).
- RBT-5 — a bug in Arcade Battles where the engine power was higher than the BT-5’s engine power has been fixed.
- IS-7 — the standard position of the third-person camera has been changed so that the anti-aircraft machine gun does not block the sight. (Report ).
- T-44-100 — the material of some hull attachments has been changed from rolled homogeneous armor to structural steel (external fuel tanks, track guards, fenders).
- KPz-70 — tank weight has been reduced from 51.7 to 50.4 tons. (Report ).
- SAu 40 — the armor of many elements of the hull has been corrected. (Report ).
- SUB-I-II — the maximum speed on water has been decreased from 10 to 6 km/h. (Report ).
- Olifant Mk.2 — the incorrect value of the underside armor thickness of the hull has been changed from 200 to 17 mm. (Report ).
- PGZ04A — the tank’s weight has been decreased from 22.7 to 22.5 tons. Source: exhibit information from Army Games 2017.
- C13/TUA — the neutral gear steering has been added, the engine sound has been corrected. (Report ).
- ARL-44 (ACL-1), ARL-44 — the hull side armor thickness has been increased from 50 mm to 60 mm. (Report ). The thickness of the lower part of the hull side armor has been increased from 25 mm to 40 mm.
- Side “Relict” ERA blocks — a bug that caused the actual protection of the ERA in side blocks to be slightly lower than it should. Previously due to a bug the plate on the rear side of the ERA block wasn’t being accounted for.
- Cromwell V, Cromwell V (RP-3), Churchill VII, Churchill Crocodile, Valentine XI, Excelsior — the M61 projectile without explosive has been replaced by the M61 projectile with explosive.
- Ru 251, JPz 4-5 — the M82 shell has been added to the ammunition loadout. (Report ).
- Bhishma TWMP — the installation and removal of a bulldozer blade now influences the mass of the vehicle.
- High-explosive projectile 7.5 cm Sprgr.34 — the tracer has been removed. (Report ).
- Alecto I — the explosive mass in the high-explosive projectile 95 mm Shell Mk.Ia has been increased from 0.66 kg to 1.36 kg. (Report ).
- XM246 — a bug that caused the installation of a laser rangefinder to change the radar type has been fixed.
- 30 mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile DTY-2 — the explosive type has been changed from A-IX-2 to JHL-3. (Report ).
- PLZ05 — explosive type in the 155 mm semi-armor-piercing projectile BEA1 has been changed from TNT to JHL-3. (Report ).
- Sd.Kfz.6/2, Ostwind, Ostwind II — parameters of a number of ammunition have been corrected. (Report).
- Pzgr.18 — weight has been changed from 0.685 to 0.7 kg, speed changed from 770 to 790 m/s.
- Sprgr.18 — weight has been changed from 0.62 to 0.612 kg, speed changed from 820 to 840 m/s, explosive weight changed from 29 to 26 grams.
- Mgr.18 — weight has been changed from 0.55 to 0.565 kg, speed changed from 914 to 900 m/s.
- Puma, Puma VJTF — the horizontal guidance drive, which could trigger pressure damage in situations where the fighting compartment with the crew was not damaged, has been removed from the list of modules that cause pressure damage, and the FCS module has been added. (Report ).
- P.204 (f) KwK 39/1, AMD.35 (Pak) — a bug with the lack of damage from napalm to an open top crew has been fixed. (Report ).
- M1A2 SEP v2 — tank weight has been increased from 63,000 to 64,300 kg. (Report ).
- Leopard 2A4M CAN, Leopard 2A4M (Senrai) — the IM HE high-explosive fragmentation projectile has been added to the ammunition loadout. (Report ).
- Bosvark — turning radius has been reduced. The steering angle has been increased from 20 to 35 degrees. (Report ).
- BTR-3E1 — the gunner’s thermal imager has been replaced with a night vision device (NVD). The vehicle is equipped with the Trek-M fire control system. Sources: БРОНЕТРАНСПОРТЕРЫ БТР-3Е РУКОВОДСТВО ПО ЭКСПЛУАТАЦИИ БТР-Е РЭ. Спецификация боевого модуля “SHTURM”.
- 30 mm 2A42, 2А72 — the dispersion parameters have been clarified (increased). For example, the 2A42, MK-30-2/ABM, and Bushmaster Mk.44 guns had identical dispersion parameters previously.
- Effects of fabric/tarpaulin and net fluttering from the wind and shots have been added to the following vehicles:
- IS-1 (‘45), Sd.Kfz.234/2 Biene, Pz.Sfl.Ic, Tiger Ost, Tiger West, Ostwind Ost, Leopard 2A4M CAN, Leopard 2A4 (PzBtl 123), Sherman (Hell), Hellcat (Hell), M1 KVT, Firefly (Overlord), Avenger (Overlord), Crusader AA (Overlord), Challenger 2 TES, Challenger 2 OES, Type 16 (FPS), Type 90(B) Fuji, M41A3, PzH2000HU, Ariete Certezza, Vextra 105, Leopard 2 (OTCo), Bkan 1C, Christian II, Merkava Mk.1B, Merkava Mk.2D, Merkava Mk.2B, Ra’am Segol, Merkava Mk.3B.
- Puma (all variants) — the material of the lower side skirts and the first forward section of the side skirts has been changed from structural steel to RHA. The base hull armor material has been changed from rolled armor to high-hardness rolled armor. [] These are initial changes that did not require drastic changes to the DM. By the time the update is released, we plan to refine the armor of the troop compartment ramp and the front upper skirts which remained unchanged (by making them blocks with composite armor instead of structural steel), change the DM in the exhaust area, and add the missing composite armor module in front of the driver’s hatch. Changes that are not included in this update will be implemented in subsequent updates. []
3 Likes
Rheinmetall didn’t give the vehicle a name, LEP is the most accurate though. The vehicle is not a 3 in the same way abrams-X is not an M1A3.
So either the round is underperforming, or the T-80 is overperforming, or some combination of both, because we have a primary source stating it can penetrate a T-80 with KE sensitive ERA (find another KE sensitive ERA it could be referring to, unless you mean to suggest we should be penetrating T-80BVM)
For APFSDS? Do you have any reason to suggest that beyond the soviets using a similar method for one experimental APHE cap in the 1940s, as if that’s remotely comparable?
So because the devs don’t believe L27 can penetrate a T-80 while ignoring any source that states it can, the devs don’t believe L27 can penetrate a T-80. That’s circular reasoning if i’ve ever heard it.
And if you actually read the report you’ll find it was about the turret, and was therefore not fixed.
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Worth chucking into a report?
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At the same time, its also activiely promoted as the Challenger 3 on the British army website:
The same tank, when fitted with APS, is also known as the “Challenger 3 Advanced Technology Demonstrator” at shows too
Hence the ambiguity in the lack of a clear official name and why the devs have chosen CR 3 TD.
Never thought i would see the day gaijin had to pull this kind of manoeuvre to deny something british lmao. The devs are REALLY scraping the barrel…
Kinda just sad that your having to defend this tbh.
In no world can you defend using the in game engine to determine if something correct or not, especially the wt engine knowing how buggy it is. Like cmon, this is like using the gmod engine to determine how well a building will hold up to strong winds.
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There is no need for the condescending tone. I have read the report fully.
The report contained 2 issues. The turret floor missing was fixed.
Its a key part of why we have a 1 issue per report rule and why the second one was later reported separately later.
Hence:
Both issues were initially fixed. Somehow, the turret damage model was then reverted, and any following reports entirely ignored. “Accepted” counts as being ignored once you’re two years into it.
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2 years ago for a damage model that was corrected then uncorrected? Quick pipeline you got going there.
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Can’t even argue that it takes time to create a new damage model because they have the damage model, they just reverted the damn change.
you cant condemn someone for the condescending tone when that is exactly what the devs are doing to everyone here whos spent their time bug reporting.
It may not be coming from you directly, but your not exactly doing yourself any favours.
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Your initial claim is that it was not fixed at all. When Ive already acknowledged there is a later report regarding the mismatch in DM.
At this stage, it feels as though we are going in circles for the sake of it here sadly.
“None of these were fixed in their entirety if at all.” Was my initial claim. It was not fixed in its entirety, and now it is not fixed at all.
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Regardless of the outcomes of reports or whatever the developers have decided, I’m sorry, but there is no excuse to be condescending to someone trying to help here.
Otherwise, as Ive said, there is no point to me being here trying to help in the first place.
I appreciate there is frustration, but there is no justification to deliberately direct that to those seeking to assist because you think its justified.
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It was, as you said rightly yourself:
A later issue then arose where it was incorrectly reverted:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/mWd3XAjD2kZu
Once again though, im really not sure what this is doing to progress the topic here.