CAS problem

[Herojure24]

@FlyingDoctor

You don’t understand what’s been said or implied then.

@FlyingDoctor

You don’t understand what was put to you, so you hardly have an authority to make out that they understood what I deem them to also not understand.

Here is the whole argument summarised. Please tell me how deflectiong to cas is OP has anything to do about CAS mains crying about SPAA?

[FlyingDoctor]

@Herojure24

Here is the whole argument summarised. Please tell me how deflectiong to cas is OP has anything to do about CAS mains crying about SPAA?

If you took on board the ‘argument’ then, you’d accept that the new SPAA has just been added and is effective.

It could easily lead to other systems being added.

The moan here about the TO mode being the only option is misplaced.

@ron_23

so why else dont you have a positve, or even close to positive KD in anything close to top tier

Don’t care, what’s it got to do with anything other than shaming someone into submission on a discussion forum?

@ron_23

the complaints were that russia both had the best CAS and the best AA resulting in your team being steamrolled by CAS

Then now they’ll be equalized and no-one will be complaining? Yea, nah aye…

[Fanta_3412]

Yeah, I just bomb their spawn with GBU39

[FlyingDoctor]

@DESPAIR7991

If pilot knows how to play, no AA is threat.

I’d bet the SPAA could work on it. I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion, especially with content creators being cherry pickers by nature.

@gangsterism

there is no movement to add anything, and historically there wasnt any momentum to add new SPAA either. this is just speculation

Why can’t there be? You psychic? What’s the lotto numbers… Stop repeating words back like you know how they mean to be used… It’s movement, aka things are being added… Things can be added…

Hell, it’s a multi-vehicle vehicle…

[FlyingDoctor]

@Herojure24

You are not even making an argument here

You’re just not getting it then…

@ron_23

if you have to fight a guy that has more than one braincell he is able to kill the new SAMs regardless

But that guy didn’t handle them…

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

I’d bet the SPAA could work on it. I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion, especially with content creators being cherry pickers by nature.

cherry pick or not, what happens happens.
the video is an accurate represntation of top tier gameplay, and these CAS strikes happen too often (optimal amount of this sort of gameplay would be zero)

@FlyingDoctor

Why can’t there be? You psychic

no, im not psychic and you are not either. there is no reason that new better SPAA is added to other nations right now

@FlyingDoctor

You’re just not getting it then…

you just post 2 different messages, of course he doesnt get it when you dont elaborate on what you mean

[Real_K_Soze]

@MotorolaCRO

@Real K Soze@live

There is no such thing as a “safe” place in Air RB

I think you didn’t understand what I tried to say.

When talking about safe place I meant being safe from other vehicle types, such as AAs.
This is because his original claim was that people want TO because they want to hide (be safe) from other vehicle types, such as planes.

I never challenged the fact planes are vulnerable to planes in ARB.

It looks like we talk about two complete different things:

1. If you are not a strike aircraft of ground pound in any other plane class it is correct that you are basically just focused on airborne threats, correct. The only exceptions we have are “time travelling” SPAAs like M163s or Roland SAM systems which you face due to what ever reason at ~ BR 6.0 (=late WW2 axis or post war & Korean era allies).

2. The fellow player is not entirely wrong with his claim - it is actually way easier to focus just on ground units instead of ground and aerial threats.

3. It boils down that you are forced to decide your strategy - same as in Air RB. There you are forced to make decisions - like staying high to face their best player - or to go low and kill enemy strike aircraft as they are murdering you tickets whilst being fully aware that you become ez prey for the enemies at altitudes.
   For Ground RB players this means either to anticipate which enemy had collected enough SP for an aircraft - or to deny enemies these SP by countering these attacks (or get SP and use a CAP capable multi-role CAS aircraft).

@MotorolaCRO

@Real K Soze@live

The imho flat wrong assumption that Air RB and Ground RB would have similar goals

Aircraft in GRB aren’t needed or required to accomplish any goals, thus they are pretty much optional to the whole mode from it’s inception.

@Real K Soze@live

Gaijin has designed Ground RB with aircraft as integral part of the game play.

I have to disagree on this one.
Tanks are the only integral part of GRB as you’re required by the game to have a tank in your lineup. This isn’t true for aircraft though.

Also, all of the objectives are on the ground which obviously is only accessible to ground vehicles. Combine those things and it looks like that aircraft in GRB were just an afterthought.

What about:

1. I can start any Ground RB match with a reserve tier tank and an aircraft in which BR i choose. The BR range of the match will be determined by the highest BR vehicle. The fellow player @ULQ_LOVER showed this quite impressive in various vids in this forum.

2. If you talk about objectives you might acknowledge that you play a plain vehicle based shooter optimized to be played by gazillions of minors in order to earn money with them by luring them into the hamster wheel called grind.

3. From a holistic pov the role of aircraft as power-ups is similar to other games. It allows kill driven players to rack up ez kills as all the have to do is to figure out ways to “find” these power ups (or like in wt to know how to earn the necessary SP) whilst they collect spawn kills - ofc they describe it as disrupting enemy reinforcements.

4. So technically seen all objectives in shooters are there to enforce player interactions as it is obvious that you meet enemies near mission objectives. This gets tricky in games with infinite spawns, but in wt you simply play as long as one side runs out of SP.

@MotorolaCRO

@Real K Soze@live

So the Ground RB player is not only forced to buy & research ground units - he has also the task to buy & research aircraft

Clearly unfair to what people that only play ARB have to go through.

From my pov no passionate pilot would even consider playing an airplane game if he would be forced to play a tank too…

The devs have many priorities, but fairness was never on their list - otherwise we would have vehicle capability based BRs - and not BRs based on player performance.

@MotorolaCRO

@Real K Soze@live

it simply allows abysmal bad tank players (but just slightly better mouse aim pilots) to kill way superior and experienced players if they manage to get enough SP for an aircraft.

Making tools like that for abysmal players to feel better and then locking it behind “you can use it if you do good in a tank” wall makes no sense, but it’s Gaijin.

As written earlier - if you play a shooter optimized to be played by minors it seems quite logical that gaijin does their best to keep entry barriers as low as possible, so the power up “aircraft” is a quite cheap way to create relative success even with just a basic skill set.

@Herojure24

@MotorolaCRO

They forgot to add any aircraft specific objectives or even make it mandatory for people to have aircraft in their loadout before queueing.

This right here showcases another flaw with CAS arguments. You don’t need to have a plane in the lineup to queue for GRB. Implying that planes are not an integral part and merely an addon to the mode.

I am far away from playing the devil’s advocate - but you completely miss the economic benefits for this design.

And technically seen the whole purpose of aerial warfare is, was and will be to support or defend own ground troops on an operational / tactical and strategic level.

Have a good one!

---

@gangsterism

gaijin is creative when it comes to pulling money out of players, im sure their company wouldnt collapse if they made a new gamemode which is much more playable than the current one

You made a valid point - I totally agree with your remark with gaijin’s creativity.

From a neutral perspective your chances for getting a TO mode might increase as soon as their is a significant drop in fresh/new players joining wt. As long as the game looks rather stable with no ongoing signs of a decline they won’t even consider this.

• Based on what i have seen in this thread it looks like that moderate to highly experienced players support this theoretical “new” game mode. This is similar to many other topics in this forum.

• Over the years i saw hundreds of posts/ threads with reasonable proposals / suggestions how to improve the game itself and the underlying game play.

• It looks like that gaijin has a clear tendency to ignore every proposal which might be suited to create entry barriers or have a (predicted) negative impact on their income.

• This is imho a clear indicator that experienced players demanding changes like larger maps or tactical / strategic game play are not gaijin’s main target customers.

• I would argue that a company being more than 10 years in the market and having millions of players (with billions of user / game data) has adjusted the game to be in line with the demands of their main customers.

Have a good one!

[ron_23]

just awnser my simple question

@ron_23

so you dont see how flying in a straight line gets you killed?

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

The over reporting of cherry picking leads people to think it’s every match and that things are done for without seeing it.

it happens pretty often

@FlyingDoctor

I’m not the one making out I am.

me neither

@FlyingDoctor

There’s no reason that they couldn’t. Well, other than maybe features for said systems.

yes there is a reason.
players are forced to grind germany while they have the best SPAA.
once enough money was milked, a new SPAA can be released

@FlyingDoctor

No, he’s not getting what I’m implying about the fact of good things taking time, and all good things have to start somwhere.

well i can see why he didnt get that

@FlyingDoctor

Nope, I thought you’d have got what was implied.

im not sure anyone got what you meant

@FlyingDoctor

Just understand I am more for adding things to make the issue less of an effect, compared to this blanket removal that would happen if you entertain the crowd here.

no blanket removal was ever mentioned anywhere

@FlyingDoctor

Would possibly mean that the mode wouldn’t be needed.

adding an SPAA wouldnt change the need for TO

[FlyingDoctor]

@gangsterism

thinking that new SPAA added is a conspiracy though

Nope, the game always goes forward.

@gangsterism

this state of top tier “balance” or disbalance towards CAS will never last.

@gangsterism

gaijin needs to make money on players grinding CAS, so its a solution that does not work

That’s more conspiracy.

@ron_23

he typed in the chat after he died

Doesn’t matter, the fact that he’s distracted is the issue.

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

I think you’re trying too hard to make something… I’d seen the clip and he was dumb to have been trying to type some attitude in the chat and got wrecked…

the point of that clip was that CAS players always complain about SPAA despite being trash at the game, and skilled CAS players are uncontested in wrecking ground battles

@FlyingDoctor

Nope, the game always goes forward.

it goes forward over the span of months.
the next best SPAA will not be getting added tomorrow, nor next week

@FlyingDoctor

That’s more conspiracy.

its a presumption.
gaijin is a company

@FlyingDoctor

Doesn’t matter, the fact that he’s distracted is the issue.

this isnt relevant to the clip he posted

[ron_23]

@gangsterism

@FlyingDoctor

Doesn’t matter, the fact that he’s distracted is the issue.

this isnt relevant to the clip he posted

he even saw the missle trail of the missiles that killed him

[Herojure24]

It was you saying we were crying about the pantsir. And I asked how were tankers crying about it then you just deflected. Just check the meme again

@gangsterism

im not sure anyone got what you meant

As wasd expected since the argument was convoluted

@FlyingDoctor

@gangsterism

yes there is a reason.
players are forced to grind germany while they have the best SPAA.
once enough money was milked, a new SPAA can be released

This is just conspiracy.

Is it though? if you want clear skies or even a chance you have to grind germany

@gangsterism

adding a new gamemode is considered a removal?
what 4D universe phyisics is this

he keeps repeating this removal when every single time different people have said we don’t want any mode removed.

[FlyingDoctor]

@ron_23

you can see him trying to fire off his mavericks he was actively searching for ground targets and not distracted

Yea, that’s a distraction.

[ron_23]

@FlyingDoctor

Yea, that’s a distraction.

that is a skill issue and nothing else, right now your are defending a person that was kind enough to tell the SAM player that killed him to “unalife himself”

[FlyingDoctor]

@Herojure24

he keeps repeating this removal when every single time different people have said we don’t want any mode removed.

I never said about the mode being removed, it’s absolute bad faith to be making out I mean it for anything more than removing planes in a mode, for the players who say they want their own mode…

[FlyingDoctor]

@ron_23

right now your are defending a person that was kind enough to tell the SAM player that killed him to “unalife himself”

I’m not defending them in the slightest.

[ron_23]

@FlyingDoctor

@ron_23

you can see him trying to fire off his mavericks he was actively searching for ground targets and not distracted

Yea, that’s a distraction.

if doing CAS is a distraction then idk what to tell you

[FlyingDoctor]

@ron_23

if doing CAS is a distraction then idk what to tell you

Being in the wrong view mode is a distraction at the wrong time…

So you tell me…

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

I never said about the mode being removed, it’s absolute bad faith to be making out I mean it for anything more than removing planes in a mode, for the players who say they want their own mode…

we are adding a gamemode, not changing an existing gamemode.
bad faith is you calling everything “bad faith”
you said what you said, dont blame other people for misunderstanding what you meant when you didnt write what you meant