Can we get rid of this specifc spot on the France map

[Aegis270]

@Schindibee

Yes, such positions are difficult to handle. Yes, tactical choices can be a win or a loss, and affect personal and team outcome tremendously - but that’s exactly what makes it interesting! Warfare isn’t easy, personal decisions matter.

Are you correct. Warfare is often deeply unfair, plodding, and exceedingly dull. Sitting around, waiting to for hours, days or months in a position the enemy may never actually attack, all to prevent the worst should the enemy attempt to do so.

But why would we seek to replicate that in a game?

Even the most fastidious mil sims currently on the market will still cut out the parts of real warfare that are simply not enjoyable on any level. War Thunder is already a very long way down that road. No mechanical breakdowns, no catching one team out by ambush, no outnumbering the enemy on spawn, no limiting CAS to only the team that was arbitrarily assigned air superiority, etc.

@Schindibee

For me the idea to cut at the 3-4 line and thus remove about 1/3 of map area one can use is not a good option, for the reasons I mentioned before: It removes interesting options to play the map - for both sides.

To be clear, interesting = spawncamping?

Because that’s all a player can achieve from these positions. The entire goal is to get behind enemy lines (For free, unless the enemy somehow decides to post a guard and/or has a spawncamper of their own), and gank players coming out of spawn, who, unless they’re constantly scanning the horizon like an owl on meth, obviously won’t react to your presence.

That’s not skillful gameplay. That’s cheap. It’s the logical equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel.

What’s worse is that, from sufficiently powerful positions (Like the one in the OP), even knowing that the enemy is there isn’t a solution. A player who gets into that position and plays correctly can derail the entire game and hand their team the win, with very little the enemy team can do about it.

Again, that’s not fun gameplay. That’s “Whoops, you didn’t sit out the game to prevent me from doing this, time to freefarm and win the game for my team without really trying”.

@Schindibee

And where to stop? Next remove the hill at B4? Then lower the C5-C6 crest, flatten F6-F7?

Slippery slope fallacy. No-one here is advocating for anything more than addressing this very real problem.

@Schindibee

Well, in the end it’s really a question of personal taste, but making a map “easier” to play by taking away tactical possibilities will always be something I speak out against…

And as long as those “tactical possibilities” amount to “I should be able to drive around an unpopulated corridor of the map and get free kills”, I will speak out against that.

[SwingfireOP]

Rather than asking for some poor soul to sit there for the entire game on the off chance someone comes that way, which is an absurd position, the map just needs fixing.

No asking for a volunteer to sacrifice their game, just fix the map.

[Yubel2]

asking gaijin to make a map better is like asking gaijin to make the matchmaker better, it’s never gonna happen.

[SinisterIsRandom]

Well, if you consider that this person is next door to our spawn, it’s not too difficult to nullify all of your flaws when your vehicle is almost barely exposed, and almost, cause we could see him. Still, we could not hit him since the hills were at a point where if we tried to angle our rounds, it would always overshoot. We also only had a 3-second immortality, so even if we wanted to get into a distance where we could salvo several howitzer rounds, we were dead by then. Reality is, removing it would fix the issue, but nullifying it or altering the hill so that you cannot do what he did would be a better decision.

[Schindibee]

Yeah, I tried it out a bit ysterday, also using the Object 120, and there is indeed a spot on that hill that is perfectly curved for even that vehicle to be in a very good hull-down position that would be hard to counter. And it’s relatively safe to get there as Red without being in too much danger, that’s a point too.

I also looked at it from the position of Blue side: If you control that hill, you’re not useless, as you can fire to the hillsides and crests north of A, amongst other, less important zones. I remember having been killed from there when I spawned in the north and positioned myself along the C-5-C6 crest.

I also timed how long it takes to get there (again Taran as reference): As Red you need about 5 minutes, as Blue 2 minutes. If you take the hill as Blue you’d still be careful about Red trying to get to the hill, as the side where Red would aproach is not well visible from the hill…

But yes, if Red has the hill, Blue has a problem…

Changing the hill’s shape slightly or add some vegetation or obstacles on it that would protect Blue spawn could really be an option - without making it necessary to cut off the whole left third of the map.

[SinisterIsRandom]

One thing I just remembered: we also had enemy tanks covering him from the town or somewhere in that area. So making it even more difficult. So, having said hill altered in a way gives us some sort of heads-up about tanks approaching from the town.

[Schindibee]

Ouch.