The Harrier 1 has a similar wing area to the MiG-21 however it is heavier not by too much, but enough for it to be classified as “High Wing-loaded”. Still it is in no way comparable to say the F-104 or even 105 or F-4 in terms of G capability.
Gaijin Used the AV-8A manual to determine lift. They missed a very important aspect of that chart however, it represents cockpit instrument AOA and buffet onset not maximum G capability.
The Harrier 1 currently needs to use significantly more AOA (20 degrees vs say 12-14 degrees) to achieve the same G. What this means is you need to create significantly more drag to reach the same turn rate.
(I have checked with a senior Tech mod and these documents are all ok to share, some even coming from TNA)
The Harrier ODM (Operating Data Manual) used the onset of buffet to determine the harriers max G capability. The Buffet AOA chart is also included in the RtoS (release to service document)
You use the RtoS Buffet AOA value to determine buffet onset AOA and that is the AOA at which buffet limit Lift and G occur.
Example:
.6 Mach Buffet onset G for a 16,000 Lbs harrier 1.
Buffet onset at .6 Mach is 11 degrees AOA for flaps up
at .6 Mach the Harrier 1s wing produces 85,000 lbs of lift meaning for a weight of 16,000 lbs you get 5.3ish G at 11 degrees AOA .6 Mach sea level
What this means for in game performance:
Under the exact same conditions you will only achieve 4.4G having a turn rate of 11.7 degrees a second at buffet onset in game
Compared to 5.3G and 14.2 degrees a second being what it should do.
Did not think you would get unbanned lol.
So basically, what this is saying, is that it should be changed to lose less speed when pulling the same amount of g pull?
In the pocket tac man at 400 knots you can reach 7G at the buffet boundary (14-16 degrees AOA for the onset of wing rock also stores dependent) Lift boundary for the harrier is determined by lateral oscillations or the vibrations and shaking you experience when turning hard. Accelerated stalls occur when one of the wings might partially stall and you lose aileron effectiveness. (18-20 degrees AOA harrier 1 at these speeds)
So with just 16ish AOA you should achieve the full 7G at 400 knots with the 15-16,000 pound harrier 1. At 18-20 degrees AOA nearing the wing drop critical maneuvering AOA you could expect 7.5-8G
Compared to the 6.6 you see in game at 19.9 degrees AOA.
Yeah that was a bug report I made using the Harrier Mk.50 (AV-8A) Aircrew manual this manual predates the NATOPS manual.
I believe they refused this document because it would mean they would have to completely re-model the harriers Pegasus engine. Seeing as 650-675 degrees C on the mk103 engine would allow for 100% RPM translating to 6-7G sustained turns IRL.
IRL it is engine RPM that dictates thrust and not engine temps.
What gaijin should do -
250 knots and below you can use WEP + Water injection above 250 knots the engine throttle resets hard locking it to a Max of 100% throttle (100% rpm IRL) giving the correct 100% rpm thrust of the IRL engine when set to either Normal Lift dry or the revised combat plug seen on the Sea harrier. the Temp here would be roughly 650 to 675 degrees C. That would allow you to know exactly what engine rating you where using as the % throttle would = % RPM IRL. Currently in game its running at 745 degrees while missing 150% Ish of the IRL thrust.
Beautiful thing the Pegasus was making the Harrier brutally overpowered for basically any situation. Perfect for low level air combat however.
The Pegasus engine IRL was only limited by the set JPTL (Jet pipe temperature limiter) that would then auto control RPM depending on how hard you could spool it given its operating temp. That’s why its thrust is reduced in hot climates and its thrust is absolutely mental in cold humid climates as the rpm is not limited to the JPTL.
A bit of a tangent but I digress lol. I think Gaijin should just send a little time on it and give us the first harrier.
Matrix will be able to say more, but from my understanding, most Harrier 1 reports would also translate over to Harrier IIs. At least to a degree. The tricky bit is sources. Because whilst things like Harrier GR1/GR3 and AV-8A/C sources are available. AV-8B and Harrier Gr7/9 sources arent. Many are restricted in some way
But some aspect have been reported already, like the thrust curve report listed is actually for the Harrier IIs and is just an assumption that the Harrier 1 engines would follow a comprable thrust curve rather than the weird dip at high speed they have currently
Yes I now even have sources for installed thrust at .6 Mach for the Gr.3 when at different engine ratings.
14,500 LBS thrust at .6 Mach with 100% RPM on the mk103 engine
Gr.3 in game has like 10,500 lbs thrust so its missing a lot but gaijin needs to redo the harriers engine modeling for the thrust and throttle to make sense.
