The protection analysis only shows the direct effects and spalling, it doesn’t account for the explosive part of shells.
The hit analysis is client side so might not show exactly what happened in the match, the server replay is much better for that.
I tested again and the overpressure is definitely what happened, you can even kill the Maus like this:
What happened is basically what they show on the video explanation you see when mousing over regular HE shells:
It’s still like 700g+ of TNT equivalent. I don’t know enough about fluid dynamics to really have a strong opinion on this. My guess though is that it shouldn’t matter how many turns the pressure wave has to do since it enters from one opening and has nowhere else to go but to fill the space inside the tank, it’s not like it can vent anywhere. but that’s just my assumption.
Well its nice to know that 1 shotting a maus from the front in a medium tank with a lower BR than it is just so easy. What amazing game balance.
Of course Gaijin modelled over pressure so well! There is another 20mm plate behind the drivers but i guess that counts for nothing too.
being one small spot on the front
Easy? It’s a tiny spot that you have to hit with a relatively slow shell that generally do less damage if it doesn’t overpressure. It’s not “easy” , you got unlucky.
The guy has just shown 2 with only a few minutes of searching, so, no not just 1 small spot.
Well, Its nice to see the Forum mods here to defend the game again, instead of admitting there might be issues with how the game is actually functioning… So very sad.
I never said there wasn’t any issues with the game, just that one spot frontally and another side-on =/= an easy shot. I’ve admitted multiple times as a moderator that there are issues with the game, as there is with every game.
So why does not every heat shell landing in that vague area cause overpressure then??? Because that’s not how its supposed to work!
If what you say is correct any single HEAT or HE shell would 1 shot it and Mauses would be totally unplayable. Yet people admit that killing a maus from the front with 1 shot is almost impossible if there isnt ammo in the turret. You can read that for yourselves from the previous replies. No one here is saying “yeah just shoot it with heat and its a 1 shot”
You have just shown that even you do not understand the mechanics behind the overpressure mechanic.
It has to be above that plate and there is a distance away from it where the pressure no longer overpressures, that distance depends on TNT equivalent explosive amount of the shell and the shells penetration capabilities for the pressure part.
If it’s to high up it wont overpressure through the plate:
And you can be really low but not directly above it and it wont over pressure either:
It depends on the shell, distance to plate and if it’s directly above or not. Add to that if you angle the turret the spot to hit will also be different. So that spot is indeed really small and you were just unlucky.
I think most people here assumed through penetration and not through overpressure. Practically any tank can be one shot with an explosive shell if you hit the right spot.
In what way do i not understand them?
You don’t, you cripple it then kill it with several shots
Additionally, again if it is that 10mm armour plate as you say, then clearly it is more than 1 spot as the image shows 9 different armour plates of 10mm thickness. Proving what i said was right. More than 1 tiny spot.
You have just contradicted yourselves with your own evidence!
Also, you said it was because it had 712.64g of TNT equivalent and therefore it overpressures. If that is true the maus should be able to overpressure itself using its APHE shell with 786.5g of TNT equivalent, by shooting directly down into the engine though those 10mm plates. The protection analysis is not showing this to ever happen? Why? What is happening to the blast of the APHE shell in the engine bay? Oh yes, its being absorbed by the internal plates!!
Those other spots aren’t connected to the crew compartement.
No :)
I would appreciate it if you tested things yourself or perhaps asked instead of claiming things without actually knowing. There is no reason to be annoyed at me, i’m only trying to explain how the game works.
APHE has a minimum amount of armor it has to go through before exploding (“fuse sensitivity”), in this case 19mm. So that shell explodes inside of the engine and not inside the crew compartment. I’m not entirely certain but i think the requirements for those shells explosive mass is higher to overpressure as a lot of the energy goes into creating shrapnel instead of a pressure wave.
Edit:
It does in fact overpressure if you shot in that way:
Well none of them are connected to the crew compartment then if you look at the x-ray view, but you just stated this is where the overpressure wave enters the tank… again a contradiction in what you are saying.
Yes.
But they do not work correctly. First you stated there was just 1 tiny point where the M47 could pen the tank and i was unlucky. Then, no, its to do with the 10mm plate. Then, its not because they aren’t connected to the crew compartment…
And clearly that shell is detonating inside the engine block. That is a completely different location to where the M47 HEAT shell detonated! Do you not see the difference!!!
And this is again nothing to do with the 1mm you originally showed, and there is no way the game should be calculating a protection of 1mm on the side of the gun mantlet!! Clearly something wrong!!!
If we are to assume it hit that “1mm” luck area, (which the server replay and the saved shot, show it not hitting anywhere near that point) then why are you talking about the 10mm plates?? Where is the 1mm value coming from?
I’m not sure i understand what you’re saying here. If you’re talking about the armor plates separating the driver/engine/turret then they don’t cover all the way to the bottom, there is a gap underneath them.
The radiators are closed in with a plate underneath them and above them so there is no way for the pressure wave to get to the crew compartment.
How? in what way?
I didn’t say this.
Correct, i haven’t said anything else but this.
because those other spots aren’t the specific plate that i was talking about.
This is not what i was showing with the screenshot, i’ve never said that it was the penetration at that spot, just the over pressure of the plate below the spot of impact. Here is the exact quote from my first response in this thread:
That has nothing to do with it, at all. I think the game shows “1mm” when the shell doesn’t actually penetrate with the main projectile but can still damage something with the explosion and pressure wave. It isn’t actually 1mm of armor there. For example if you aim from the side at an angle where the shell bounces but it then bounces up and hits the gun shield and explodes above the plate the game will say “1mm” because it doesn’t actually penetrate and instead bounces, but it has to say something because damage is still being done:
If you’re just going to write multiple exclamation marks and be all angry about things without first understanding them then why should i keep responding to you and try to help you if you can’t be civil about it?
“a tiny spot” “you got unlucky”
Well there is none of that “1mm” “it has to say something because damage is still being done:” with an HE shell. That switches between Showing a value and not showing a value!
So here is you 1mm shot… where is the over pressure going then? Its detonating over those thin plates. Time and time again…
So because those internal plates have a tiny gap at the bottom, you are claiming that the overpressure from the shell detonating on the front, is going all the way around and down and knocking out the entire crew?
Considering the Maus was over 10 meters long, you think that shell would follow the path I have drawn?
And earlier you said
If the shell detonated on the front of the mantlet, or turret face, then the shock wave has a huge amount of open space to dissipate into! Only if the shell had exploded inside the tank would that be true. It clearly did not.
Ok, so lets say it did detonate inside the engine compartment. The overpressure from the shell detonating inside, will like you said earlier, have no where to go but to fill the tank…
So lets fire the shell into the plate…
So where is all the pressure going now? Suddenly it doesn’t have enough power to kill everyone? Whats the explanation this time?
I am being far from uncivil. I am just trying to get my point across that clearly that shell should never be able to overpressure the maus from the front. There is some serious cope coming from you, instead of just saying “Oh yeah, that should never happen in that situation. its probably a bug”
An HE shell doesn’t penetrate.
It’s damaging the engine, i never said that is the protection analysis says “1mm” it will overpressure. Just that the shell still has a chance do damage with it’s pressure or shrapnell.
Correct.
HEAT rounds overpressure to the sides, not forwards. In front of the shell all the pressure energy goes into the explosively formed penetrator and not a pressure wave.
As far as i have seen everything has had a game mechanic explanation. If you think this is wrong then you’re free to make a bug report for it. But i do not think it’s a bug.
and now you say
Contradicting yourself again…
1’st case is for that specific situation, second is specifically for heat. I was answering two different things.
The first i ment that the wave travels into all the directions of the inside of the tank, the second is for what directions the HEAT sends the waves.
Yes, an HE shell can pen. Thats why they have penetration values on their stat cards.
But here, again, is a video demonstrating that your excuse that a HEAT shell has to show a “1mm” value because that tells you its going to overpressure is garbage, because the HE shell that text comes and goes. Nothing to do with whatever excuse you were trying to pedal.
What are you on about? Both times we are on about a HEAT shell detonating in the same small area and how the overpressure travels from that point. At the very start you said that the pressure wave travels in all directions.
Now you are changing your story and saying it only goes in certain directions.
Even the stat cards disagree with your change of story, because the animations show the shock wave not only going in all directions, but even travelling behind the shell’s direction of travel!
And you answer is exactly what I predicted you would say yesterday after my last post. Claim it was to do with the direction of travel of the explosion. Yet apparently once it is travelling in your very specific direction of travel, it can then do a nice little U-turn inside the tank, pass through tiny gaps between the transmission and kill everyone.
No. Forget all that crap about “fluid dynamics” you were on about, its due to the fact it is coded poorly, and once it thinks it finds 1 tiny little gap, the rest of the armour counts for nothing and everyone is dead. It’s a problem with how the game is calculating this stuff and some errors in the code.
And no, im not going to make a bug report either. I stopped submitting bugs along time ago when the mods would refused to acknowledge there were bugs, even when all data was provided along with video evidence. The reply was just “doesn’t happen for me”.
