Buff the reload speed of all Merkava 3s

[TPS_Hydra]

All 120mm M1s had 6s reload until recently, where it got pushed down to 5s and M1A1 was also affected. IPM1 had 5s reload though

That was 2 years ago like I mentioned prior, that isn’t something recent whatsoever and doesn’t need to be brought up, it’s like saying Sweden was a recent introduction since Viking Fury was implemented in 2020.

Everyone will get those turret baskets eventually

They modelled the turret basket as the entire horizontal drive, some vehicles have this taking less and/or more room than the M1, the M1A1 is more of a severe case since if you shoot quite literally anywhere and penetrate, it will cause something to fail.

The Merkava Mk.3 doesn’t have this detailed damage model in-game yet, that’s what matters, not what will come in the future but what’s currently present in-game.

Again, do you have a source on this as what you said here definitely isn’t one

Weight is a direct contribution to kinetic energy, more energy is required to propel something heavier like M322 at the velocity of 1705 m/s than something like 3BM42 at the velocity of 1700 m/s. This in turn increases penetration and spalling of said kinetic penetrator.

Whilst War Thunder may not specialise in weight entirely, other modifiers like kinetic energy is definitely a factor, like said prior takes weight into account. Spalling is influenced by residual kinetic energy, shown in the video you posted and higher energy means more post pen affect - basic maths.

Thanks for proving me right lmao

@jspene

Never said it should. It should go to 11.7, which makes it OP at its current BR

Yeah, let’s make the M1A1 one step below 12.0 because it’s that good of a vehicle! All this shows is skill issue since the M1 is usually a very squishy and easy tank to kill for me, if you’re struggling with it then something may have to be re-evaluated.

This is genuinely the most amount of coping I’ve seen in a while, and I thought UK mains like myself coped a lot about the Challenger 2s but this is some new record honestly

[MotorolaCRO]

@TPS_Hydra

That was 2 years ago like I mentioned prior, that isn’t something recent whatsoever and doesn’t need to be brought up, it’s like saying Sweden was a recent introduction since Viking Fury was implemented in 2020.

It was published on Dec 21, 2023 so it’s more a year and few months. This is definitely recent considering M1A1 was added in March of 2019.

@TPS_Hydra

Weight is a direct contribution to kinetic energy, more energy is required to propel something heavier like M322 at the velocity of 1705 m/s than something like 3BM42 at the velocity of 1700 m/s. This in turn increases penetration and spalling of said kinetic penetrator.

Two long-rod darts with the same penetration value will spall the same, regardless if they weigh 5 or 6kg, as the game ignores the mass part and solely focuses on penetration.

@TPS_Hydra

Spalling is influenced by residual kinetic energy, shown in the video you posted and higher energy means more post pen affect - basic maths.

Spalling is influenced by residual penetration left as shown in the video.
Just because your round weighs more, doesn’t mean it will have more spalling than another round with the same or more pen amount.

[TPS_Hydra]

It was published on Dec 21, 2023 so it’s more a year and few months. This is definitely recent considering M1A1 was added in March of 2019

Yeah because 442 days since the buff was a short while ago, you must honestly be 80 years old or some prehistoric fossil to believe this was a short while ago - both the additional of the M1A1 and the reload buff was a while ago and especially when you look at how long War Thunder has been about.

Two long-rod darts with the same penetration value will spall the same, regardless if they weigh 5 or 6kg, as the game ignores the mass part and solely focuses on penetration

Final boss of not reading, weight does matter as it’s taken into account for residual kinetic energy and the equation for kinetic energy is KE = 1/2MV^2 which last time I checked included weight - M standing for mass and V standing for velocity.

Just because your round weighs more, doesn’t mean it will have more spalling than another round with the same or more pen amount

Yes because the impact of spalling by weight can be negligible depending on a plethora of things like the angle of impact and thickness, velocity and composition. Residual penetration is directly impacted by weight and velocity.

---

This doesn’t change the fact that M322 is amongst one of the best APFSDS in-game and it’s found on a 11.3 platform, which is 2 steps below top tier for ground.

Please give me whatever copium substance you’re on, whatever it is must be STRONG for you to be this ignorant

[MotorolaCRO]

@TPS_Hydra

Final boss of not reading, weight does matter as it’s taken into account for residual kinetic energy and the equation for kinetic energy is KE = 1/2MV^2 which last time I checked included weight - M standing for mass and V standing for velocity.

Higher velocity and mass will give you better penetration, but if your round is penetrating 600mm of armor it will spall the same as other round with the same penetration, regardless of it’s weight and velocity.

Meaning that velocity and mass are already accounted for, so to judge the spalling only thing you need to look at are the penetration numbers.

@TPS_Hydra

This doesn’t change the fact that M322 is amongst one of the best APFSDS in-game and it’s found on a 11.3 platform, which is 2 steps below top tier for ground.

It also is worse than a round M1A1 fires while also having a longer reload. Very small first stage stowage is also a problem, as after five rounds your reload will increase even further.

[TPS_Hydra]

I honestly can’t be asked to continuously argue with someone so narrow minded so this is going to be my final response.

It also is worse than a round M1A1 fires while also having a longer reload

Penetration only matters to a certain extent, M829A1 also is significantly slower than M322 having a velocity of 1575 m/s compared to M322s 1705 m/s - the penetration difference is also 9mm of RHA, they’re on par and M322 to a extent is even superior.

Higher velocity and mass will give you better penetration, but if your round is penetrating 600mm of armor it will spall the same as other round with the same penetration, regardless of it’s weight and velocity

Genuinely the final boss of not reading, there isn’t any point continuing this as you’ve proven to be ignorant, to actually believe the Merkava Mk.4 is more of a competitive tank when compared to the Mk.3 actually baffles me and demanding for a reload buff isn’t a realistic demand.

Not to mention you ignoring the glaring fact that the M1 is receiving a massive nerf this update, Israeli mains may get the short end of the stick but when it comes to complaining, yall are second to none.

[An_Pigeon]

Lad, Ive read this entire argument, the 11.3 merkavas are some of the worst 11.3s in the damn game.

The ZTZ 99 II and III are far better tanks and they are 11.0.

the type 90s are miles ahead of them while not having the same penetration at an angle the JM33 beign fired every 4 seconds is wild. That means for every 2 shots an aced merkava Mk3 can put down range a stock Type 90 can.

Lets also not touch on the fact that the merkava MK3 armour is woefully bad, and has two rounds right on the floor infront of the engine so if you shoot clean through the engine deck, which even the round on the M1 can do, then you will detonate those two rounds. If you somehow miss them, you then spall into the entire crew and wipe it that way,

Merkavas are renowned in WT for being ridiculously low armoured and survivable.
Only the 9.3s actually being said to have some form of armour.

Ive 6 nations at top tier ground, with only isreal, italy, sweden and france to get, and france im 90k off a the first leclerc and isreal im 40k from teh merk m3.

@TPS_Hydra

baffles me and demanding for a reload buff isn’t a realistic demand.

Okay then, move the damn M1A1 to 11.7 where the likes of the Leopard 2PL , CR2 TES, Arietes and such all sit.

Why the M1A1 sits at 11.3 when it is far supperior to pretty much even the top tier merkavas is wild.

• a caveat , the ZTZ 99 III and II are far, far more effective in top tier matches than the merkava Mk3’s , combine in the fact you also get the MBT2000 at 11.0 it is wild the merkava does not get the 5 second reload it should have.

@TPS_Hydra

Not to mention you ignoring the glaring fact that the M1 is receiving a massive nerf this update,

and what “massive” nerf is that buddy?
is it suddenly gonna be going 50 kmph? with a 6 second reload and lose all its protection?

Or is it getting some more modules put inside it? which isnt a massive nerf.

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra

Israeli mains may get the short end of the stick but when it comes to complaining, yall are second to none.

1. He is not an isreali main he probs has more top tier than you do.

2. Im not an isreali main, most folks that are complaining about the merkava are quite justified in teh matter.

3. By far the most irritating and audacious complainers are the USA mains acting like the abrams is a bad tank in this game when its in the catagory of top 3 MBTs at top tier.

[MotorolaCRO]

@TPS_Hydra

I honestly can’t be asked to continuously argue with someone so narrow minded so this is going to be my final response.

You’re trying to argue by using anecdotes as evidence and even use false information to bolster your case.

@TPS_Hydra

Penetration only matters to a certain extent, M829A1 also is significantly slower than M322 having a velocity of 1575 m/s compared to M322s 1705 m/s - the penetration difference is also 9mm of RHA, they’re on par and M322 to a extent is even superior.

You’ve claimed that M322 is amazing because it spalls crazy good due to it’s above average weight, which has now been proven to be false.

I genuinely hoped you’ll have some truthful arguments to present as why Mk3 isn’t clearly inferior to M1A1.
So far you only gave me your anecdotes and false information.

@TPS_Hydra

Genuinely the final boss of not reading, there isn’t any point continuing this as you’ve proven to be ignorant, to actually believe the Merkava Mk.4 is more of a competitive tank when compared to the Mk.3 actually baffles me and demanding for a reload buff isn’t a realistic demand.

It’s funny calling me ignorant while you had no idea how spalling works in the game. No wonder you dodge talking about that topic as of now.

[An_Pigeon]

To be quite fair the round is actually better than the leclercs is it not?

The M1A1 also functionally wise has the same

• protection
• reload
• mobility
• optics (minus the gen 2 thermals)

as the M1A2 (which should also be 12.0)
so why the M1A1 gets to sit at a lower BR than the damn CR2 . leclerc. ariete is wild

[An_Pigeon]

@MotorolaCRO

I genuinely hoped you’ll have some truthful arguments to present as why Mk3 isn’t clearly inferior to M1A1.
So far you only gave me your anecdotes and false information.

TPS Hydra@live:

lets go the old fashioned way.

• Armour= over all the M1A1 has more effective armour due the merkavas models being shambolically done.

• firepower = M1A1 has a better round, faster reload better gun handling and turret traverses.

• mobility = the M1A1 is far faster, has better hull traverse, faster acceleration as well as equal or better reverse as merkava.

• Profile = The M1A1 is far smaller than the merkava, not as tall, nor wide or long .( merkava is the biggest MBT in game I believe only CR2 is slightly longer but has a smaller front profile.)

• Survivability = as mentioned above the Mekrava has two rounds on the floor behind the engine which detonate if a round pens, which it always does due to the armour being modelled wrong.

• optics / view = Abrams has better zoom functions if I remember correctly but only has gen 1 thermals and a lack of a proper commander sight. Merkava is ahead in this one area.

overall the M1A1 abrams sits at the same BR but is better in every, single aspect, bar lack of thermals. and a commanders sight, which if you actually know how to play isnt that relevant anyways as the binos are for more easier to use and faster to sweep an area.

[TPS_Hydra]

a caveat , the ZTZ 99 III and II are far, far more effective in top tier matches than the merkava Mk3’s , combine in the fact you also get the MBT2000 at 11.0 it is wild the merkava does not get the 5 second reload it should have

The ZTZ99 is a broken vehicle at 11.0 and I’ve said this countless of times, you can’t use something like the ZTZ99 as a example since it’s the exception and simply shouldn’t be at 11.0 - don’t use one wrong to correct one right.

@An_Pigeon

He is not an isreali main he probs has more top tier than you do

Just lol, lmao even (even including a old fashion XD)

Top Tier Vehicles

This is excluding Germany and Japan which I have both half researched as well, I can definitely talk from experience lmao

[An_Pigeon]

Youre here commenting on the M1A1 and you dont even have it .

• nor do you have any merkava

• youre showing htat off as if i should be impressed when ive got 6 nations ground at top tier mate.

Youre experience is whats called ancedotal evidence.

You are infact choosing to ignore the fact the M1A1 is statistically better than the Merkava Mk3

@TPS_Hydra

The ZTZ99 is a broken vehicle at 11.0 and I’ve said this countless of times, you can’t use something like the ZTZ99 as a example since it’s the exception and simply shouldn’t be at 11.0 - don’t use one wrong to correct one right.

I can and did use it as an example as most people believe it isnt worthy of 11.3

You also claimed its less survivable than the merkava which is just false completely.

what about the type 90 then? its miles ahead of the merkava and has a substantially worse round.

[MotorolaCRO]

@An_Pigeon

optics / view = Abrams has better zoom functions if I remember correctly but only has gen 1 thermals and a lack of a proper commander sight. Merkava is ahead in this one area.

Both have gen1 thermals but M1A1 lacks the commander sight.

[An_Pigeon]

thought it was closer to 2 IRL. MB

[TPS_Hydra]

Youre here commenting on the M1A1 and you dont even have it

Quite literally have the M1A1 Click-Bait, which is a M1A1 with M829A2 and a soft kill APS, maybe actually use your Mk.1 eyeballs? I also have test driven the M1A1, other than what I’ve stated it’s the exact same as said Click-Bait.

I even had it prior to the addition of M829A2, when it was the exact same BR as the base M1A1

• nor do you have any merkava

I clearly have the Merkava Mk.2D and you’ve claimed to read the entire conversation posted in this topic and that single sentence made it apparent you skipped many parts of it, I played with the Merkava Mk.3 when I went to my friends house down in London and he has around 400 battles in it himself and shares the same exact opinion as me - he furthermore prefers the Mk.3 over the Mk.4s.

[MotorolaCRO]

@TPS_Hydra

Quite literally have the M1A1 Click-Bait, which is a M1A1 with M829A2 and a soft kill APS, maybe actually use your Mk.1 eyeballs? I also have test driven the M1A1, other than what I’ve stated it’s the exact same as said Click-Bait.

Click Bait has much better turret armor, how did you miss that ?

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra

Quite literally have the M1A1 Click-Bait, which is a M1A1 with M829A2 and a soft kill APS, maybe actually use your Mk.1 eyeballs?

So youre now comparing the 11.7 better M1A1 which is functionally identical to what is the M1A2 sep bar thermals to the far worse Merkava Mk3 B?

@TPS_Hydra

Merkava Mk.3 when I went to my friends house down in London and he has around 400 battles

“my friends merkava” which isnt you owning the merkava Mk3 as well as this I apoligies I hadnt noticed the MK2D as I was not looking as you can see at your premiums instead at the TT vehicles like we are discussing

@TPS_Hydra

• he furthermore prefers the Mk.3 over the Mk.4s.

• Just because the mark 4 merkavas are far worse at their BR that does not suddenly make the mk3 merkava good at all. The mk4 merkavas, arietes and CR2s are all tied for being the worst top tier tanks in game so do with that what you will.

@TPS_Hydra

I even had it prior to the addition of M829A2, when it was the exact same BR as the base M1A1

you say that in italics like im supposed to be impressed
I had both the IPM1, M1A1 and M1A1 HC before the clickbait was even released.

the M829A1 round is an absolutely phenomenal round at its BR especially with the 5 second reload.

[An_Pigeon]

cause he actually has not used the tanks hes talking about,

[An_Pigeon]

@TPS_Hydra Oh something else I got mistaken, the merkava Mk3’s actually have four rounds infront of the engine not 2 so its even less surivable.

fun fact, the M774 round will travel clean through the front of the 11.3 merkava and out the back door if fired center mass.

same round.
M1A1

[MotorolaCRO]

@An_Pigeon

fun fact, the M774 round will travel clean through the front of the 11.3 merkava and out the back door if fired center mass.

I’ve been killed by 3BM42 that was shot pretty low, went through all of my engine block and still killed all 3 crew in the turret lol.