BTW, why do I see Brimstone PNL in the game, when most of the CAS films about the plane uses SAL version?
the best solution can be a short operetional zone for the launch, similar to the drone (8000) or maybe more short (5000) and leave the radar system, it’s hard to enter in the operetional area for the spaa, so you can obtain a great reward if you manage that
Additionally, MMW band blocking smoke formulations do exist. The issue is that not all countries have an equivalent as far as I can find, though it wouldn’t be the first or last time systems are simplified for balance reasons.
and so in effect they be modeled the same as existing IIR seekers “under the hood”.
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Hey all,
I’m a big sim player and one of the main issues I have with the brimstone in it’s current state is just how insignificant it is when compared to other CAS systems in enduring confrontation.
The 6 maverick + 2 GBU loadout, the GBU39 loadout, and the KH38 or Grom 2 loadouts that other comparable aircraft get allow them to burst 6 or more ground targets at once, while also not having to commit to guiding the weaponry in, and be heading home for more ordinance as soon as the weapons have been fired/dropped. The brimstone carrier on the other hand has to loiter on target and guide each brimstone in which takes longer and puts the carrier aircraft at much higher risk, for much slower returns.
It is also worth noting that chaining brimstones is not as easy as chaining hellfires on a heli, or chaining KH38MLs and KH25MLs: The hellfires are easy to chain since the platform carrying them doesn’t get closer to the target in between launches, leaving a useable gap in between each missile determined by the user. The KH38MLs/KH25MLs also maintain very good pace until hitting the target, meaning a chained missile fired closer to the target still won’t catch up to the first missile unless fired at extreme range. The brimstone on the other hand runs out of booster fuel quickly, and then slows down like a brick in mud to the point where I often find chained brimstones often get very close to each other despite being fired with seperation, which means you cannot hit multiple targets consistently.
The praise I will offer the brimstone though, is in ground battles against SAMs. Here both the lofting characteristics and extremely slow speed actually enable you to launch a brimstone with IOG over a ridgeline or just very low to the ground, turn away, wait until the brimstone approaches the target, and then turn back towards the target and pop up to lase the brimstone in the last 7-10 seconds of flight before a SAM can respond. This can also be done effectively with the paveway IV though, and is not an exclusive feature to the brimstone.
Anyway, just offering some food for thought and my two cents on the subject.
Do with it what you will.
Cheers all,
Sebdspy
Theoretically The Brimstone has a significant “magazine depth” advantage against the mobile target set; like Convoys in comparison to the GBU-39/B, since the Laser-SDB I & SDB II are not implemented (yet, GBU-53/B is in the files). Though currently needs to take the time to pick them, off one at a time which balances them, not that a LOBL profile (even if not actually present IRL) would be too good in my option even with the way things are, considering the reduced range that MMW seekers have (approx. 6km limit).
Assuming of course as previously mentioned above, IR / MMW obscuring formulations of smoke were provided globally to provide some counter in GRB / GSB.
The GBU-39/B is sufficient against massed static targets. And the Grom 2 is good against armored / area profiles with the large warhead.
couldnt aircraft radar provide LOBL past 6km?
Yes, that’s LOAL (Lock-On After Launch) though, it would use GPS / INS to travel to the target area and then turn the seeker on.
so aircraft radar in a2g mode cannot provide missile with track on a moving ground target? maybe this is only for newer AESA like APG-82?
It’s not a SARH missile, also as MMW is a shorter wavelength than “X band” it can’t be directly driven off the main radar like a Sparrow can be.
It would only be able to use the onboard radar to get where to look for the target with it’s own seeker.
dont some newer missiles have datalink between missile and aircraft, that it could use to possibly direct the missile? maybe not for brimstone 1 but maybe the 2/3 could have this ability
Typhoon undertakes live firing test of MBDA’s Spear next generation miniature cruise missile - AGN.
looks like SPEAR 3 has it
Yes, but it’s not often that high a bandwidth and only really used for “Impact assessment” or “retargeting”.
It’s not going to be directly command guiding a missile without a dedicated datalink like the AN/AWW-9 / -13 (e.g. AGM-62ERDL), or AXQ-14 / ZSW-1 (GBU-15) could.
idk this also says GBU-53 has mid course update capability through 2-way DL, so it should be possible to use the radar to extend the hard lock range of a SDB II, SPEAR 3, and presumably Brimstone 3
Hey Tripod,
you make reasonable points, but if you’re going convoy hunting remember the GBU39 carriers can all also bring Mavericks (x6 for most) which is more than enough to destroy every AA in the convoy. After the first pass you can then mop up the rest with rockets, other GBUs or even guns + dumb bomb. The process is quicker though per convoy than brimstones because you can efficiently wipe 6 targets incl. AA in the first pass. For the Grom carriers they also have TV guided bombs and the fantastic KH38MTs that they can again remove all AA in one pass with.
If we look at brimstone in an EC ground battle, you can bring more GBU39s than brimstones, and wipe the whole battle in one pass. If you don’t, you have 6x mavericks or other FnF weapons and can remove the AA in one pass and then clean up with dumb bombs, rockets and guns. (I feel like that initial burst gives you enough lead that the brimstone user won’t keep up at that point).
If they gave brimstone a LOBL mode for 6km, then you’d at least be able to compete against the ground battles where the AA has a much shorter effective range and ripple off multiple targets with some risk tradeoff for less loiter time/more burst. If you gave it the ability to LOAL (dual mode NOT mode 3) then that would also make it a lot more competitive as well without giving it the overpowered full seek and destroy LOAL mode 3. Currently though, the brimstone doesn’t compete against convoys and it doesn’t compete against EC ground battles.
The brimstone isn’t a bad weapon, it’s just not remotely competitive in EC. More competitive in ground against AA systems, but still not as competitive as other options.
Cheers,
Sebdspy
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Revisiting my old Topic
My stance on the missiles relative to the Tornado GR4 has remained completely unchanged, granted instead of an IR seeker, a nerfed Mmw seeker would’ve probably been more acceptable. (Similar to how spikes are in the game but they dont have all their features) the same could’ve been done to reign in the Brimstone.
Unfortunately Gaijin added the Eurofighter Typhoon (way too early might I add), and with its absurd missile count they’ve effectively killed any hope for the brimstone being modeled accurately for a very long time. As giving this plane access to that amount of FnF weaponry would tear top tier Ground RB and Sim to shreds.
Ultimately I find this decision disappointing to say the least, as the 2nd reason that I highlighted in my original post is not only still 100% true. But the introduction of the AASM Hammer bombs on the Rafale and Mirage 2000D RMV only serve to further tarnish that statement.
Gaijin staff, on the off chance you read this. I do not have an issue with you explaining things. I do not have an issue with you guys having reasons for your decisions.
All I ask is that when you give an explanation/reason for doing something, don’t make it one that is so easily contradicted by things that already exist in the game!
Like seriously one of the main reasons against FNF Brimstones was “we dont want weapons that out range SPAA, and that tanks cant defend against” when several of those weapons already existed for years, and still exist.
Then to add a nice thick layer of irony over the top, you proceeded to add a new weapon (AASMs) that do both of what was just claimed to be something you don’t want?
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They need to come up with a better solution than SAL (especially as the Typhoon never used Brimstone 1 either, so its an ahistorical version in addition to SAL) . Its extremely unfair that the Typhoon has 0 FnF and it especially sucks in gamemode where it does not matter. Like Air SIM.
The better solution I think would be SP costs based upon quantity. Make it so that taking more than 6x FnF Brimstones is really really expensive to spawn in with. Even just 9, let alone 18.
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Well well well… “we removed the self guiding from the Brimstone to balance the game”. Ahhhh, a classic Gaijin move, because you had absolutely zero issue giving russia the strongest SPAA in game with IRCCM missiles that can be spammed from 30kms away, the strongest bomber in game, the strongest GPS guided bomb, the strongest hull on all their modern MBTs (I’m still waiting to see a real T-90 survive a shot to the turret like nothing happened), the strongest line ups in game (top tier is unplayable against URSS, let’s not even talk about sim mode).
I just unlocked the Brimstone, tried it, saw that it needs constant guidance from the aircraft carrier, laughed at myself for thinking Gaijin would give a decent weapon to any other nation apart from URSS, and finally closed the game instantly.
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I have a problem with the Brimstones regarding the IOG ability.
Does this work for anyone?
If I mark a target with the laser and the missile flies towards it, then it should hit the position, even if I turn completely and can no longer mark it with the laser.
This means that a stationary target should be hit. But this is not the case.
Because the Brimstone does not maneuver to the last marked position. Not even close.
Is the IOG function even implemented?
Yes it is. However, brimstone 1 (the version in game) do not have 0-drift IOG. Meaning, while the missile will fly roughly in the direction of the last laser point, it won’t hit it precisely. Some missiles have 0-drift IOG (KH-38 iirc) or GPS (AASM) to achieve a precise impact without laser/ir guidance.
Also the IOG perma disables after the laser is used
You need to disable the laser from automatically activating when fired, this will guide them via IOG. If you fire them with the laser, they wont guide with IOG.
Is that realistic? That sound rather stupid tbh