Yeah 9.0 definitely needs some work, what ww2 aircraft are you talking about here?
Interesting choice of words there but okay bud lol
Nah, top tier isnt too bad. 8.0 to 10.7 is the most compressed, with a horrible mix of supersonics vs subsonics and flareless aircraft vs all-aspect, high-G missiles.
When you have flareless versions of the harrier at the same BR as identical harriers but with 240 flares, you know the compression is bad if neither can move.
For top tier, i think you could get away with a single more BR so you can spread the 13.0 stuff out and you would be pretty close
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Well the me163 fights t-2s, the mig15s fight aim9ls, you have mirages with magic missiles killing sabres, etc… when I say around 9.0 I mean ±1 br
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makes sense, it’s definitely a issue
I agree want gajin decompression max battle rating (Air AB, RB & SB) higher 14.0 for fighter aircraft, but wait 2 years decompress to 15.0
The bigger point of having them seperated is to make sure the aircraft below them NEVER see Fox 3s.
Pushing that barrier 1 step higher allows for High fox 1 to be some aircrafts Max uptier which is far more fair than dealing with Early Fox 3s.
Then shall we create a hard separation between supersonic and subsonic aircraft? CMs and no CMs? All-aspect IRs and rear-aspect only? PD/MTI Vs non PD/MTsi radars? IRCCM Vs non-IRCCM ?
There will always be an overlap, there should be an overlap. I’d reasonably confidently argue that an F-15A stands a better chance against most ARH carriers than the FA2 does. To have the FA2 and other st BRs where they face only vastly superior aircraft, would essentially delete them from the game
And that very well may be true, but its the same issue of the 104 Again, do we let these few aircraft be better so they can fuck over legitimately everything else below them? or do we bring them up a bit to where they slightly suffer but Br brackets below are saved. I get you might like these aircraft alot, but they cause a LOT of damage to the ecosystem that cannot be overlooked, and they will most likely have to be put in a disadvantageous position to maintain that ecosystem
The best performing props do not have the ability to fight anything beyond the first meteor and me 262 so there needs to be a hard barrier so that the spitfire mk24 cant be seeing things like a SU9 unless its brought significantly higher than normal
Which is why my stance has always been to get buffs for the FA2 (several major buffs hopefully coming this major update) instead of BR reductions where possible. FA2 for example, could easily be as low as 12.3 or 12.7 in its current (live) configuration.
But I do not consider 12.7 and especially 13.0 as “too low” and nothing between 12.0-13.0 suffers anymore than 11.0-12.0s do in a full uptier vs the Gen 4 IR/SARH slingers like the F-16 or Mig-29.
120s and 9Ms at 12.3?? are you INSANE? I really dont think you understand how big of a deal Fox 3s are , they are an extremely non-commital fire and forget weapon, almost to the point of “Eh, why not throw one” In comparison to the high commitment that Fox 1s Require, let alone discussing the difference in radar Quality between platforms found in the high 11.0 / low 12.0 area compared to Fox 3 carriers.
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Moving my duplicate topic to the replies here (whoops)
Once again we’re back at decompression discussion. As usual, we’ll be looking at all top tier (Rank VIII) aircraft and their ARB BRs. This discussion seems more important than ever considering how many BR complaints there are in the forums, with the potential for disastrous results.
This time I’ll be further expanding top BR from 14.7 to 15.0 to allow for increased nuance at the topmost BRs.
For TL,DR: main decompression points at current 13.0, 13.7, 14.0
11.3
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Tornado IDS MFG
Tornado GR.1, Tornado IDS ASSTA.1, Tornado IDS 1995
Tornado MLU RET.8- unless it receives better missiles which has been stated as a possibility
11.7
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Su-25SM3
12.0
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Kurnass 2000
12.3
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Tornado ADV, Tornado F3
F-4EJ KAI
JA-37D
Harrier GR.7
JF-7A
MiG-21 Bison
Tornado GR.4
Mirage 2000D-R1
12.7
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F-16A
F-20A
Mirage 2000C-S4
F-14A
Netz, Netz
Mirage 2000D-RMV
13.0
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F-16A ADF, ADF, MLU, AJ
MiG-29 9.12A,B, 9.13
Yak-141
13.3
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AV-8B plus, AV-8B Plus, FA.2
MiG-29G
F/A-18A, C Early
F-14A IRAIF, F-14B
F-16A (FR)
JA-37DI, DI
Kfir C.10
13.7
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Tornado F.3 Late
F-4F ICE
J-8F
F-15A, J, Baz
Su-27, J-11, Su-33
Mirage 4000
JAS-39A
14.0
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JF-17
F-16D Barak II
MiG-29SMT
14.3
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Su-34
J-11A
JAS-39C, C, C, C HU
F-16AM, OCU, C, C Barak II
Mirage 2000-5F, 5Ei
14.7
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J-10A
F-15C, J(M), Baz M
Su-27SM
J-11B
F/A-18C, C
15.0
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EF-2000, F-2000A, FGR.4
F-15E,I
Rafale
Su-30SM
Bonus: armament changes
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- Netz, Netz: remove ahistorical Python 3, to 12.7
More historical while maintaining balance - F-16A: add AIM-9M, to 13.3
Netz, Netz: remove Python 3, add AIM-9M, to 13.3
F-16 ADF (US): add AIM-9M, to 13.7
F-16 ADF (IT), MLU: add AIM-120B, AIM-9M, to 14.3
More historical particularly for the ADF and MLU, while maintaining balance. Moves 4th gen airframes away from 3rd gens while keeping performance via armament. - MiG-29 9.12A,B,G, 9.13: add R-73, remove R-27ER/ET, to 13.3
Much needed historical change plus better balancing for 29G. - Yak-141: add R-73, R-77, to 13.7
Historical change of intended weaponry - MiG-21 Bison: add R-77, to 13.7
Historical change - J-8F: add PL-8B, to 13.7
Historical change and slight buff but not huge - F/A-18C: add AIM-120C-4, to 15.0
Solidifies F/A-18C as BVR missile truck
*F/A-18A add AIM-7P, AIM-9M, to 13.7
F/A-18C Early add AIM-9M, to 13.7
Historical additions and good buff
Closing notes
As usual, I will explain but not defend my decisions. That is, I’ll answer questions for why vehicles were placed where they were but will not engage further. I simply don’t have the time nor energy to argue around in circles with every single person who disagrees.
Yes, there are BR overlaps between rank VIII and VII, and Rank VII vehicles that need rebalancing. But I’ve decided to set a hard line at Rank VIII, because otherwise I’d end up rebalancing almost every vehicle in the game!
New missiles: there’s as always been discussions of “x new missile should be added now”, from the classic demands of AIM-120C-5 and Python 4s, to quieter calls for R-74M and AIM-9X, to newcomers in R-37M an PL-10. And as always people are grossly underestimating the capabilities of such missiles. That’s all I have to say about that.
Aircraft don’t all fly the same. This has two really important effects to remember- not every aircraft can use the same playstyle and not every aircraft can be the best of the BR. Remember these two factors before asking for a lower BR because x plane can’t do y as good as z plane can. Look at the aircraft holistically and used in its best role when considering balance.
Remember, if you think there’s a balancing issue, aim upwards and not downwards. This is about decompression and not compression after all! So I’m hoping not to see “F-18 should be 12.0 because AIM-9L” or the like.
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Its a Harrier 1 airframe that is most commonly found at 9.7. In terms of performance, remove the AMRAAM and its a much much weaker version of the Harrier Gr7 located at 12.3. OBVIOUSLY. It cannot go that low, nor would i EVER actually ask for it to be that BR, but Fox-3 = OP is just false and no 12.0+ struggles against most ARH carriers at 12.7/13.0
Decompression’s brought up every month, but every day there’s a new “move x vehicle down” topic that gets much more support. Even in this decompression topic there’s people asking for BR reductions.
Yeah my bad, should have assumed that.
Its not that they are Inherently Overpowered per say, its that they force most of the match to bend to their will.
Its easy to avoid dying to Fox 3s, If you play a certain way. But thats the problem IF.
you HAVE to play around fox 3s if they are present in decently numerous quantity (or less of you happened to get targeted) , and there is no room around that, They force the matches to play out in ways they previously would not just because of their presence, and that therin lies the problem.
Moving up fox 3s opens up for different options and ways of play that are otherwise impossible or simply much more difficult to the point its not worth the effort.
Its not Just Fox 3 = Bad, its their impact on how the game is played that I find important, and why i find such a difference between High Fox 1 and Low Fox 3
ground?
and this is no different to the impact the R-27ER had on gameplay since its introduction for example, this is nothing new and I dont think inherrently new to Fox-3s.
But Id say the biggest failing is on map design and not the weapon systems or compression. Everyone taking off from a single point and flying straight towards the other team is the PERFECT environment for ARH spam. In ASB for example. ARH are far more tame
The worst part is, is that vehicle is usually just suffering due to compression issues which could be solved with decompression… but instead people want quick fixes and make the compression worse
That is also a very fair point, Ive always thought Seperating the Airfields into 3 maybe 4 spawns that are spread out and closer to enemies than allies would help