122s are the last MBTs that should be buffed via reload, maybe ever
But okay;
122s are basically the 2A7s… but on steroids because they’re closer to the “Leopard 2 TVM” armor standard from the Swedish Trials, despite the fact all of them should be modelled like the TVM and have even better than armor than they all currently do.
Armor really isn’t niche. Its an overhyped aspect of tanks but definitely not useless or niche.
The turret on Leos, especially the sides, is such a massive advantage over Leclerc its not even funny. Not to mention the hull protection, which makes you immune to autocannons, let alone KE/CE munitions.
Abrams is quite close to Leo and like I said, has higher ceiling and floor.
My beloved Chally 2 at 11.7 😁
its definitely overhyped and completely useless against any top tier player with a braincell count more than 3
when playing any top tier tank the goal is to not get hit so armour is more of just a last ditch effore to not die and it rarely ever works. imo the m1a2 sep without the kit is better to play than any leopard because a better reload bigger ready rack and better mobility
So Ariete is one of the best MBTs?
122s are glazed beyond reasoning by sweden mains its genuinely funny the better armour doesnt mean that much
the ariete is underated but it does get to a point where it does matter a top tier tank that can be penned everywhere by L26 should just be considered a light tank at that point
…
spall liners
counter argument. they both have baskets so side armour is kind of irellevent
I’m not going to entirely deny what you’re saying, because there’s truth in it, but as a baseline, you need a good turret. And this removes almost all top tier tanks from the equation bar Abrams, Leo, and 90M I guess (though it struggles to use it).
Like I said, 2A7/122’s only disadvantage is the mediocre reload. Leo does not trade everything for armor like 90M, so removing its one singular disadvantage just invalidates every other tank.
The ammo stowage is a disadvantage, but for most players 16 is enough, and I personally carry anywhere from 18-27 and I haven’t died to it that much.
I think Ariete is also underrated but it’s definitely not as good as the 2A7s / 122s / Abrams / TKX.
The 5s reload, good mobility, and DM53 is quite nice, though.
Like IHateCAS said, you need at the very least good turret armour so that you can tank shots when hull-down, even if it means losing some mobility.
The most accurate players in the game can still struggle to pen the 2A7V if they wiggle their breech around, especially at long range where those seconds (or even half a second) of travel can mean hitting or missing the breech.
With MBTs with no turret armour, that just becomes trivial.
M1A1 and Type 90 are starting to become one of them – especially if they get moved up to 12.0.
It would be more logical to make the reload of the STR-122/2A7 6.7 seconds, instead of 6 as it is now
Sure, but a liner is always that 50/50 between dying with the first shot, and having an opportunity to smash the S key, hide, repair, and go back in.
edit: it’s why I rate ALL MBTs with spall liners (for both hull and turret) as 1 tier above where other people likely would, I know some consider the T-90M a B-tier MBT, for me it’s A-tier just because of the liner, most consider 122s/2A7s “S-tier”, I consider them “S+”
im a challenger main and prefer my black night to the 2a7 so stuff i say doesnt really matter but the leopards are definitely great tanks just not what people hype them up to be.
personally i think they should give the 5s reload to the leopards then fix the multiple issues with other nato tanks
To be fair… every one of them bar the 2A7s and 122s could get that and I don’t think their performance would improve a lot.
2A5 & 2A6 are basically M1A2 and M1A2 SEP equivalents completely, but with 1s slower reload… for reasons.
This is more of a problem with Abrams getting 5s reload in the first place, which made every other 5s mobile irrelevant.
But at that point why play the Abrams if you could just play the 2A5 / 2A6 / 2A7…
The larger first stage, ESS, 50.cal, and proxy HEAT is nice but I wouldn’t really say that equates to much better hull and turret armour.
Abrams still has stuff like Ammo Stowage/ESS/Shell Selection/Snappiness, so they would be sidegrades if they had the same reload.
2A7/122s have always been problematic when trying to balance top tier tanks. In truth the 2A7/122 is just straight up better in that scenario.
When comparing 2A6 and Abrams? I’d take that. To 2A7, probably not.
