BMPT/72 BR Topic

[mrshufflin]

Your subjective experience has nothing to represent or bring into the discussion as this game is an MMO and should be critised based on statistics (BMPT having almost 68% wr kek). Your heavily biased experiences might deny all of the problems this vehicle brings to this game not only at its BR but every BR.

Statistically and mechanically this vehicle is an absurd, modelled in the way to eat up most of the spall and theres literally no difference if it is going to be 12.7 or 10.3. Its effectiveness is not about being able to kill, it is about taking your time, more shots = less push potential, tiemframe for others to kill you. Disabling your gun is twentish or more repair outtime, same effect, takes a little of that APDS stalinium to do so. The counterplay is literally the same for BR 10-12.7 which applies to every T series garbage with a flavour of actually damage not going through, thanks to some poorly implemented spall liners and elements in the hull that magically eat up the spall. Also ERA does not limit pen of rounds above the DM53/L27A1 (aluminium tip).

This is a clearly gamebreaking vehicle which is very much comparable to a Chieftain in some other tank based game. The problem is, Gaijin is observing reaction and selling performance metrics, the next premium will be cracked the same way BMPT is. They switched into an approach where experience of the new vehicle is more valued than the balance of the whole game.

Funny enough this approach already killed a lot of games and the other similar developer got asskicked thanks to that.

They literally went all milk the money they can before the game turns into an endgame obscurity. Poor game design and monetization schemes.

edit: fixed some typos

[Zulizia]

@mrshufflin

Your heavily biased experiences might deny all of the problems this vehicle brings to this game not only at its BR but every BR.

But I’m not making an objective argument about it? I’m just stating my experiences at top tier. I’m saying I personally don’t face the issues other people are bringing up- I’m not denying their (the issues) existence because that’s immature and childish.

@mrshufflin

Statistically and mechanically this vehicle is an absurd, modeled in the way to eat up most of the spall and theres literally no difference if it is going to be 12.7 or 10.3. Its effectiveness is not about being able to kill, it is about taking your time, more shots = less push potential, tiemframe for others to kill you. Disabling your gun is twentish or more repair outtime, same effect, takes a little of that APDS stalinium to do so. The counterplay is literally the same for BR 10-12.7 which applies to every T series garbage with a flavour of actually damage not going through, thanks to some poorly implemented spall liners and elements in the hull that magically eat up the spall. Also ERA does not or limit pen of rounds above DM53 (aluminium tip).

And I agree that it has its issues and should’ve been modelled better, as do most controversial* vehicles to be completely honest. My original comment was a critique of the idea of just “removing it” then adding on that i personally don’t have an issue with it at higher tiers (i.e. 12.0-13.0). The idea that everytime something is broken it should just be removed is absurd and stupid. If Gaijin deleted everything thats broken, it’d a lazy and sloppy solution- which it is. Its also worth mentioning that this comment wasn’t even originally posted to this thread. It was posted to another thread (that got removed and all comments got moved here), where the poster talks about how the BMPTs should be completely removed. So in the topic of that thread- yes it (my comment, not specifically my subjective experience) was something worthy bringing to the table. The idea that we should remove everything broken is dumb.

[mrshufflin]

But I’m not making an objective argument about it? I’m just stating my experiences at top tier. I’m saying I personally don’t face the issues other people are bringing up- I’m not denying their (the issues) existence because that’s immature and childish.

That is true and I agree. I just feel like that giving this vehicle any room for doubt will be damaging to the game balance. IMO the future of balance for newly added vehicle heavily relies on how BMPT will be received (more like pushed back) by the playerbase.

And I agree that it has its issues and should’ve been modelled better, as do most controversial* vehicles to be completely honest. My original comment was a critique of the idea of just “removing it” then adding on that i personally don’t have an issue with it at higher tiers (i.e. 12.0-13.0). The idea that everytime something is broken it should just be removed is absurd and stupid. If Gaijin deleted everything thats broken, it’d a lazy and sloppy solution- which it is. Its also worth mentioning that this comment wasn’t even originally posted to this thread. It was posted to another thread (that got removed and all comments got moved here), where the poster talks about how the BMPTs should be completely removed. So in the topic of that thread- yes it was something worthy bringing to the table. The idea that we should remove everything broken is dumb.

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks. Which we all know is not going to happen.

[oXEnkryptedXo]

@mrshufflin

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks. Which we all know is not going to happen.

The irony being that Relikt was made to counter KE, however NATO can’t get access to their rounds meant to counter Relikt, because that would make all of RU null, even though RU punches through basically everything else, short of the STRV and I guess some leos.

[Zulizia]

@mrshufflin

Problem with this is, that to balance BMPT they not only need to apply changes to the vehicle itself but also to how NATO rounds perform and how ERA actually behaves which is going to nerf all T series tanks.

I mean, as a WT player its natural I want everything to be as realistic as can be without ruining the game aspect of, well, a game. A remodel to ERA would be sweet, along with a rework to how armour works (volumetric).

@mrshufflin

Which we all know is not going to happen.

I’d argue this type of negativity opens up more doubt in the playerbase than me saying “I personally do not experience issues with it at higher tiers” /hj

@mrshufflin

IMO the future of balance for newly added vehicle heavily relies on how BMPT will be received (more like pushed back) by the playerbase.

Also I’d argue that this type of issue will always be bound to happen. This is one of the only cases where Gaijin has actually done something regarding an overpowered vehicle (a premium nonetheless (see Turm 3, T58, Kh-38s, etc.)), which just shows that the playerbase has made progress. I haven’t seen conversation really die down so I doubt Gaijin will just stop balancing on it now after moving it up 3 whole BR steps.

[immortalpaymon]

The BMPT/BMPT-72, originally at BR 10.7 and now sitting at BR 11.3, lacks APFSDS and is stuck with only APDS. However, it carries four 9M120-1 ATGMs. Thanks to its separate ammunition storage and the tiny profile of its 2A42 autocannon, hitting its upper hull often does nothing—meanwhile, it can just delete you with its missiles.

The only consistent one-shot spot is at the very bottom of the hull, right under the Relict ERA. In testing with friends, even point-blank 90° side shots into the grenade launcher section sometimes didn’t penetrate, and occasionally grenades just vanished without cooking off. Not sure if it’s bugged armor or what, but the BMPT-90 feels better protected than the T-90M in practice.

Meanwhile, tanks like the Leopard 2A7-A4 had their armor nerfed previously but still perform well.

I really think Gaijin should fix the BMPT’s damage model—increase module hitbox sizes and ammo detonation chance. At the very least, MBTs should be able to reliably knock out its 2A42 and FCS, not have APFSDS do zero damage.

And moving its BR up or down won’t change much; right now, it wouldn’t make any real difference.

[Константинович7]

Except for the belt ammo detonation behaviour that instead of exploding the entire vehicle it only detonates the belt going up to the cannon leaving no critical damage other than temporary fire, the vehicle is fine and is expected how is performing. I’ve found myself in advantage even using HEAT-FS against Terminator, since it’s explosive and the combat module is rather fragile to chemical-warhead ammunition (e.g. HEAT, HE, ATGM-HE, etc.).

[immortalpaymon]

Yes, but here’s the thing: In most cases, the first round a tank fires is almost always APFSDS. Many players even carry only APFSDS due to the bug where carrying multiple shell types can cause ammo racks to behave oddly. And in a sudden close-range engagement, there’s simply no time to switch ammo types.

[Константинович7]

Good point, I can’t argue against, most maps exclusively works in favour of close range engagements, and due to the fact that whoever shoots first has higher chances of leaving untouched of the duel, meaning in most cases the underwhelming pressure of the autocannon will leave the target desoriented, putting the odds in favour for Terminator, however this bug about ammo rack is unknown for me, I don’t think ready-rack stowage will decide what type of ammo is in there, the only ‘bug’ I’m aware of is the safe limit for HE or HEAT in sealed stowage (blow-out panel).

[immortalpaymon]

When you store a small number of a second shell type outside the ready rack, and your ready rack detonates, your remaining ammunition becomes that small stockpile of the secondary type. However, that’s not the core issue. The critical bug is that the game sometimes changes the type of shell already loaded in the breach—for instance, arbitrarily switching an APFSDS round to HEAT

[Oni-chan-Yamete-kudasai]

Are you still debating this?

How long will they continue this pointless fight ?

is the vehicle broken? Yes, he is !

Is the vehicle able to survive the 629mm APFSDS? Yes he is !

Is the vehicle not detonating ammunition even when hit ? Yes, it’s not detonating !

The vehicle is piercing MBT’s with APDS ammunition frontally without explanation ? Yes, it is !

Can it survive the engagement of 3 MBT’s frontally ? Yes, with luck you can if you don’t shoot the BMPT’s lower plate !

The only thing that those of you who want the vehicle to be balanced can do is abandon the game :)

Abandon to the point that the loss of players is more important than the existence of a vehicle, just as there was an abandonment of BR’s 10.3/9.3/10.7/11.7

Currently the game is not prepared to receive this vehicle, because we don’t even have the real armor of the Leopard or M1A2 SEP, much less its powerful APFSDS ammunition tipped with Tugsten/Depleted Uranium.

Either they remove the vehicle or they correct the models of these 2 vehicles and allow certain ammunition storage (MAINLY 30MM SECONDARY WEAPONS) to cause the destruction of the BMPT.

Good, There is a madness in defending the vehicle for having invested in it and I understand it… But it is even greater madness to think that just because you handle the vehicle well, EVERYONE AROUND YOU also handles it in the same way.

We clearly have an unrealistic vehicle within the game as a premium package,
We have players who take advantage of this error and end up greatly hindering the work of correctly balancing this vehicle.

It’s a shame, but unfortunately it’s the community of a game that I love playing so much.

[An_Pigeon]

@Oni-chan-Yamete-kudasai

The vehicle is piercing MBT’s with APDS ammunition frontally without explanation? Yes, it is!

This is what gets me man, I’ve played this game for 5 / 6 years, and never have I seen something be as obscenely broken as the BMPT.
It’s literally shredding top tier MBTS frontally.
Soaking lethal amounts of punishment, which it couldn’t even dream of IRL.

As well as this, 10.7 is still absolutely destroyed by the BMPT.
I’ve yet to win a match as 10.7 Britain against russia, even if they lose the caps and map control, they still win cause the BMPTs either out farm evryone and nuke

[Panther2995]

@oXEnkryptedXo

leclercs of which many say is the better Type 10 because it offers way more survivability and has superior mobility.

Who says that?

I’ve never noticed survivability difference when I’m playing with my Leclerc’s or Type-10.

Both tanks has similiar survivability while Type-10/TKX has better mobility due to bein able both reverse and forward with same speed (70km).

Leclerc has 2 benefits over Type-10

One is gun handling (which Type-10 suppose to be on par but Gaijin refuses to buff horizontal and elevation speed)

Two the ready rack.

[oXEnkryptedXo]

@ゴトランド

People could just go for France instead cause MICA are still very strong and the Leclerc are basically the same if not better.

This was one of the instances where the Leclerc is portrayed better than TKX/Type 10, and although I can’t remember where the first original statement in my head came from I remember the words “I unlocked the Leclercs and put my Type 10 down, as it has better survivability and still plays the same.” verbatim.

And I replied with skepticism as they don’t have hydropneumatic suspension, so there’s no way they could play the same :D (Me trying to have a win over a declared better tank)

[KinG14]

In short, the game at level 10.3-10.7, up to level 11.7, is utterly ineffective for any nation other than Russia. I understand the game’s developers are from that country, but I think you’ve overestimated the quality of Russian hardware in this game. This is why I need to end my adventure with this game. You’ve ruined it just to show off some supposed Russian power over others, which has no real impact. Thank you for playing, and I think I’m not the only one who has thanked you for this game.

[IHаteCAS]

Learn to aim. You shot below his tank.

[IHаteCAS]

@Panther2995

Both tanks has similiar survivability while Type-10/TKX has better mobility due to bein able both reverse and forward with same speed (70km).

False. Leclerc has better mobility. It does have worse reverse yes.

[ShOt_MaCkEr]

On a touching subject

Spoiler

[ww2planes]

Lucky you, I’m NA West so I also get all the Asian players who sweat lord the game to all hell (No, it isn’t “he’s being racist”, it’s literally I get a lot of players from China, Korea and Japan as I’m in Hawaii and the times I play).

[ww2planes]

What they really need to do, if it is to stay, is shift it to the original 2006 design using Kontact-5 and not the 2016 upgrade to RELICT…