Thats why in the army you have rules when it comes to shoot over or near friendly units.
So no, it’s not the same.
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…because the Soviet/Russian army are world renowned for their fire discipline.
Good grief, your desperation to defend seriously flaky technology is plumbing new depths isn’t it? If a weapon is inaccurate then writing down some rules doesn’t really make it any less inaccurate does it? Use a teeny bit of common sense.
Unless you believe in well-behaved (good Soviet) rounds that play by the rules and always ensure they don’t hit anything they shouldn’t when they leave the barrel…
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Nobody said it would make it more accurate
Read the chain of posts.
Poster 1 says that the cannon is inaccurate and that is not a downside.
I state I WOULD view it as a downside if I were anywhere near the thing in a shooting war - not least as an Allied Infantryman being supported by one.
Poster 2 says it isn’t the same because there are rules… which doesn’t actually change the fact that it is inaccurate.
It also doesn’t negate the fact that you STILL wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the thing in a shooting war - especially given that it is a weapon dedicated to the Infantry (the soft squishy bits of an army) Support role.
My point stands.
Why are people desperately defending this thing anyway? It’s broken in the game and making a mess of top tier.
Because defending this thing is also defending blatantly shit russian designs that are only competitive, because Gaijin is being more and more loose when it comes to realism.
“No dude this thing thats objectively not good is actually great and wanted because reasons and has totally nothing to do with russian incapabilities”.
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True.
So did they say it changes that? I don’t see that stated by anyone but you
The only desperation i see here is you trying to put words in my mouth and “russia bad” coping.
But it’s fine, i really stopped caring a long time ago.
“So no, it’s not the same.”
Are you reading the same sentence I am? Read it nice and slowly and read the point I am making before it.
I say it is INACCURATE and use a comparison. He says ‘You have rules - it isn’t the same’ as a counterpoint to my statement.
As if anyone needed coping for that
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For someone who cares so little (bravo by the way - much less stress that way) - you do have a funny way of popping up in all the Russian / BMPT / Bias threads telling us how not bothered you are…
=)
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This is what Ghost said isn’t the same. He didn’t say this makes the gun any more accurate, what he said was that it’s not like the guard dog example you presented, as they take caution before firing to avoid friendly fire
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Okay - let’s play.
He quoted the entire post. He didn’t even use the word ‘Caution.’ He just said they have rules about shooting over or around friendlies - which the Russians don’t appear to pay all that much attention to.
You want to fight on this seemingly pointless hill or shall we return to the topic?
Sure, let’s stay on topic
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More like Defending SL printing META with hella lots of spin/gaslight to me.
Probably a good portion of both depending on the defending individual.
I mean, if you’re an allied trooper you’re likely near the vehicle.
It’s not going to have a round coming out of the barrel at such a severe angle that you’d be in danger.
Also, if you’re actually close to an enemy combatant that you need fire support for they’re going to use smaller caliber.
They aren’t going to use a tank shell, an artillery piece, a higher calibert auto cannon. Militaries aren’t dumb, they have all refined the art of warfighting. Not saying blue on blue doesnt happen, but the whole line of logic makes sense for a civvie.
Every military makes mistakes though and has had friendly frags from friendly fire support - US included. Stuff happens, comms break, coordinates get screwed up, electronic warfare etc.
BMPT being “innacurate” is less of a friendly fire risk than you think. They understand their platforms and don’t call the gunner and say “i need you to shoot the guy in next room” and then go oh oops that was dumb.
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That said, even the accuracy of the BMPT in friendly fire scenarios is an interesting topic - but not one currently relevant to war thunder.
It may be in future infantry combat - but we still dont have subs and its been how many years?
The immediate issue is how the Russian auto cannons, on this particular platform, impact the performance of the BR.
I hated this vehicle when it came out. It was busted.
That is not saying that there arent other vehicles that were busted on release or had a negative impact for any other national tree players in the past. Its happened before, and for the most part they eventually got fixed. T58 is a current source of contention BUT HAS nothing to do with the BMPT. Those two subjects are separate issues that are bith creating negative experience for som, and postive for others.
BMPT is still maddening to fight, though the higher tier ammo seems to be less likely to ghost shell - not saying it doesnt happen, just less likely so I am able to achieve more regular and reliable kills.
I think if the following was done, it could syay or move down depending on the play data:
A. Slightly reduce accuracy on full auto, it isnt a laser pointer and there are things like air pressure and wind/temp that will affect lower caliber rounds over distance.
B. Fix the armor model to not eat or ghost shells as often and provide better counter play experiences
There were some very good data mines that I linked towards the beginning of the thread that showed that Russian trunions, auto loaders, and a few other components had lower spall values or greatly inflated thickness compared to other nations. The numbers in this case dont lie - but that also doesnt invalidate peoples concerns about tank gun handling, reverse speed etc. I just don’t think that those factors justify substantial differences for the internal structures mathmatics. At the very least, those should be standardized.
Finally, I acknowledged that other vehicles have in the past provided a bad experience for many nations, the focus of this statement is on the BMPT and its CURRENT effect mathematically on win rates and player traffic in matchmaking.
Feelings are subjective, but numbers dont lie.
Yes Russians not realising that the best way to suppress a threat is with accurate fire rather than inaccurate large volumes
in this scenario when i fire on bmpt and no pen the loader load ammo bmpt fire on mee want to flank and my loading froze for 6 sec what’s going on? somebody explain me… but the loader not killed only driver…and my loader no want to load fk ammo to defend myself