Bf 110 15mm MG 151/15 Modification

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I would like to suggest the ability to change the 20mm MG 151/20 on the Bf 110s (F-2, G-2 and G-4) to the 15 mm MG 151/15, both internal and in the gun pods via modification.

Historically speaking the 15mm MG 151/15 started development in the 1930 as was intended to be the main stay of high performance motorkanone against Air and ground targets alike, envisioned with the same successes that the French with 20mm Hispano 404 already achieved. Mauser was tasked to develop a 15mm gun with a similar strength to the 20mm Hispano 404, but lighter, faster firing and smaller to fit into the smaller nose of the Bf 109 and other planes. While generally effective, it was found that while good against ground targets, with very good ballistics (960m/s) it was however felt that it lacked performance against air targets, especially bombers, as in general planes started switching over to metal construction instead of wood with cloth.

As such the shells of the previously adapted 20mm MG FF (and /M) envisioned as a stop gap, were taken over and put into shortened to 82mm MG 151 casings, to retain the overall length and dimensions, changing out the barrel to a shorter 20mm barrel (to keep the weight a bit more down as it still went form 37kg to 42kg) to archive greater destructive potential against (unarmored) ground targets and air targets.
It was then developed to be able to simply exchange the barrel and ammo to change between the ammo as both were continued to be uses as well as came with different strengths. With keeping use of the 15mm ammo against armored ground targets, in clean H-Pzgr. Belts with 1050m/s, and also usable against Other ground targets as well as Air targets including Armored planes with Pzgr. L’Spur (AP-T) and Pzbrgr. (AP-I) which also still have sufficient penetration with 850 and 960 m/s respectively as well as being up to 4x guns.


Pictures:(Click to show)

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As also Munition für Fliegerbordwaffen Teil 10 sayes:(Click to show)

Screenshot 2024-04-22 185450

(1) Important for choosing the ammo types is:
a) Archiving the greatest affect,
b) most logical ammo usage, accordingly to supply.
(2) The formation leader has to achieve, with knowledge of each ammo types, to get the greatest affect when belting the ammo. (…)

And based on the ammo as well, the MG 151/20 is better against soft, light armored and air targets, while the MG 151/15 duo to its specifically against tanks designed H-Pzgr is better against Tanks and Medium to even Heavy targets, while also retaining duo to other ammo kinds good affect against Air targets.

Here some more info about the 15mm H-Pzgr. o.Zerl
Its an 15mm APCR round with a driving band, light alloy (with some incendiary properties) carrier with tungsten core. (And is in game a bit wrong, AP-I(c) → HVAP and velocity 1020 → 1050m/s)

H-Pzgr. o.Zerl. (HVAP) 0,052 1050m/s 39g core 9,5mm 51mm/10m

(Another version is 0,0545kg with 1040m/s, however apparently all encountered were 52g (as captured by the USA, Britain and USSR))
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Source:

Bf 110 F and G Schusswaffenanlage (Inclunding Rüstsatz)

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Handbuch der Flugzeug bordwaffenmunition
L.Dv.4000/10

3 Likes

Ghostmaxi

Can you make a suggestion for correcting the Heinkel 100 D armament?

I made a report some time ago. Still not looked at tho.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/Xfja9Q9FBiQm

2 Likes

1 Like

i don’t really see the advantage of this as the 20mm is better in all aspect

Except it isnt? The Ballistics, velocity and penetration of the 15mm guns are far better.

Tho currently the damage of Ap and he is subpar, duo to funky modeling and missing spalling beyond armor, but that is already reported and awaiting approval for air. (The Ap-T on ground is already forwarded).

Overall the 15mm Mg 151/15 has 2,6 mT Mündungswucht, Muzzle force. The US and USSR 12,7 mere 1,6 and 1,7, while 20mm Mg FF/M, 151/20 and Shvak have 2,0 3,0 and 2,9 as such it should be pretty much on pair with other 20mm guns.

2 Likes

As far as WT is concerned, it has almost the best ballistics of any fast firing cannon in the game. It’s sad that it’s only found as the main armament on one fighter.

1 Like

Currently yeah, only on He 115 C-1, Bf 109 F-2, Do 335 A-0 and A-1. And as horribly inaccurate pod guns on Bf 109 F-4. Tho i did make reports and suggestions for othe planes to get them that had them.
The Bf 110s (here), Me 410, Bf 109 F-4 (Motorkanone), Do 17 Z-7 (started with 15mm barrle, visible from pictures and the document, of which i sadly only have 1 page), Hs 129 B-2.

Aside that, the ammo is also currently quite bad/underperforming.
I also made a couple reports regarding:
The I-T round, which has 4,9g Incendary filler and still bad fire chances, even tho its full steel construction with slotted head, relatively low penetration (c&p 7mm AP more or less), the ApI-T should just be Ap-I, the HVAP was 1050m/s (instead of just 1030m/s) and all AP ammo (including I-T) are missing spalling upon penetration. The HEF-T should be HEFI-T and is missing realshatter and pressure damage (which it has on ground, and works FAR better, overall most is correct already on the Sd.Kfz.251/21, except the Ap-T and it has for some reason the Practice Hef-T ammo.)

2 Likes

Wow, sounds like more is wrong with it than actually correct. At least it’s much better in damage output right now than it was in the past.

1 Like