3BM22 creates more spall than the Begleit’s AP round
9 Likes
Personally, I have played both and I like how the Solid Shot performs just a little more but yeah I should have reworded to the 2S38’s gun being way better not just better by a bit as the solid shot is just my preference and not statistically being better.
Sure, when Begleitpanzer gets APFSDS.
No it doesn’t. Spall is based on round mass, for which Begleit’s is heavier.
2 Likes
I’d like to see Begleitpanzer 57 at 9.0, the APBC doesn’t really have that much damage, though I need to use half rack to actually deal enough damage to destroy a vehicle at medium ranges.
The I-TOW surely helps but it’s in some situation, yet, has more depression, you can lose the commander and the gunner stays in a lower position so it’s a good vehicle at hull down, has a lower profile but 2S38 has a bigger ammo load, best options and people who complains, say it has good survivability.
The only reason I see for this BR difference is mainly the weapon rack and ammo. Because Begleitpanzer 57 is more mobile than 2S38, some times can hold some shots due to the engine deck at front, and you don’t need to fully expose the vehicle to be able to engage a target in a hilly terrain.
Of the 2 vehicles the 2s38 is far better.
It gets APDSFS to kill ground vehicles
IRST auto tracking for shooting planes
and gun Elevation to 75 degree’s so it can much better aim at planes.
The closest match to the 2s38 in the tech tree is the US High Survivability Test Vehicle and that’s a 11.7. Its absurd the 2s38 is only 10.3.
The Begleitpanzer just doesn’t have the tank killing potential of the 2s38. Its solid shot lacks penetration at long range you got no chance of penetrating a MTB. Even at close range against weak spots like the lower glacis it will often bounce.
Sure the ATGM gives it a chance but lets be honest ATGM’s are functionally awful right now. they are just too slow against a MTB with a fully stab gun and high pen APDSFS its shot and killed the begleitpanzer before the ATGM has even flown half the distance to reach it
7 Likes
Took the words right out of my mouth.
The " Bagel " is inferior by many metrics.
What needs to actually happen is the 2S38 needs to go to 11.7 where it actually belongs.
8 Likes
Ironically it was planned tl give the beglit apfsds as shown in its brochure but like… 0 info on thw hard stata are available
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Neither of these BR 9.7 features are relevant to its 10.3 BR.
HSTVL is superior to 2S38 in all ways, there’s no comparison.
2S38’s direct comparison is Strf 9040C.
3 Likes
This thing of 2S38 being 11.7 or not, I’m more for keeping it where it is, why move a premium this high BR?
If for some reason Gaijin moves it up BR, example 11.7, they’ll have to step back again to add actually 11.7 worth IFVs, something USSR lacks,
I think, at least few of, agrees that USSR need more IFVs instead of other T-80 cheaper variant, vehicles like that would be worth 11.7 is the Terminator-2, before BMD-4M then BTR-90 and then 2S25M.
Wdym good thermal? They’re literally first gen thermals the worst thermals available in game
7 Likes
Gaijin just moved all the top tier prem 11.3 MBTs to 11.7 so the precedence is already set. You add in that the 2S38 vastly outperforms other SPAA and light tanks in the 10.0-11.0 BR range it becomes blatantly obvious that the proper place for it is 11.7
As for adding in more light vehicles for Russia, I’m not against it but I don’t trust Gaijin to make them balanced - But I digress from that for now.
2 Likes
Id take IRST over an APFSDS and move it to 10.3 honestly.
Gives the proxy rounds more viability
Begleit is only better because of the more favourable br. if it were the same at 10.3 it would be much worse
1 Like
I really hate fighting that thing, but if it goes up any higher then you need tandem warheads as the current ATGM will be useless up there.
3 Likes
Strf 9040C. is no where close to 2s38 performance.
It has less gun elevation, only 50 deg vs the 2s38 75 deg so it cant shoot upwards at planes flying above it.
2s38 gets 225m penentration on its APDSFS, Strf 9040C only 143mm much more able to pen/disable MTB’s from the front
2s38 gets the option for APHE shots so when it pulls off a flank and can hit a MTB from the side or behind it can kill all the crew with less shots
4 Likes
Gun elevation does not matter much against tanks.
Talking about aircraft is 100% irrelevant, 2S38 is not 9.7, there’s zero reason to talk about its 9.3 - 9.7 anti-air performance.
APHE is an 8.3 round at best, which makes it irrelevant for the discussion of a 10.3 vehicle.
Strf 9040C also pens 168 flat and 194 angled, not 143.
Which the difference would matter if Abrams had its correct turret ring, which it doesn’t.
HSTVL is superior to your favorite light tank in all ways, deal with that fact however you want.
Begleit/2S38 is half the acceleration of my HSTVL, far worse rounds, worse optics; the only thing 2S38 has over my HSTVL is thermal generation cause it’s newer.
1 Like
Anti Air performance is not irrelevant, Helicopters and planes are a huge part of the game.
If you cant maintain air superiority aircraft will roll the entire game.
2S38 can match the Italian OTOMATIC a 11.3 AA gun at Shooting planes and Helicopters
Compared to the HSTV a 11.7 as a tank Destroyer
HSTV gets slightly better penetration 276mm vs 225mm a Difference of 51mm.
2S38 gets better rate of fire 0.5 seconds vs 1.5 seconds on the HSTV
So they are about equal on firepower
2S38 is a 11.7 light tank, a 11.3 AA gun all rolled into 1 package at 10.3
6 Likes
Anti-air performance only matters in relation to the BR of other aircraft, not tanks.
OTOMATIC is 9.7 - 10.3 in SPAA capability, not 11.3; It’s 11.x because of its APFSDS round.
HSTVL has superior firepower as your post proves.
2S38 is no where near as good as HSTVL; Stop with the Russian propaganda, Russia did not make a vehicle anywhere close to as good as HSTVL. It wouldn’t get sales due to the expense if they did.
2S38 has inferior firepower while being half the acceleration.
Russia didn’t make the 2s38, it doesn’t exist in reallife, whats in the game is based on imaginary propaganda numbers for the 2S38’s promised performance when and if they build it