Just gonna say this here because many people claim you can’t set the depth where depth charges explode. It’s possible in the options for naval after which second they explode.
makes sense, i mean tiger’s can 1 shot ships. and if it were realistic i guess they’d be too slow to actually catch the convoy even if surfaced, so you need to increase the speed to make it even remotely fair…
huh, i always assumed they just set automaticly or were magnetic? i’ve never actually set the depth and seem to always hit the sub i’m trying to hit…but also in a sub am unaffected by depth charges below 55? =/
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I’m pretty sure they go to ‘whatever depth they need to go to’ before exploding. Was watching a string of DC dropped on me yesterday: 5-6 were dropped well ahead, then there was a pause before 1DC was dropped nearby, and then another load spammed astern of me. First group exploded first, naturally, bang-bang-bang etc, quite shallow, too far for damage. I was watching the next, on target, DC which was sinking slowly. Surely the next to explode? No. It keeps descending and then the final group detonate astern, bang-bang etc, all in sequence. Right, now the on target one is at the depth it needs, BOOM.
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Ah. I forgot we can’t increase the rewards for playing objectives.
Still find it funny that the primary task of the German side gives peanuts because score for sinking those is linked to actual matches and naval has a map mode where each team has a fleet of AI cargo ships and each one sunk takes 1000 points from the enemy teams bar.
Which most players don’t shoot because it gives practically nothing and gaijin won’t change that because heaven forbid players get rewarded for doing anything other than shooting players in any mode even if the objective explicitly requires them to do so.
So instead if we want to finish the bidaily tasks in a reasonable time while juggling the TOG2 event we do the exact opposite of what any submarine commander should do and ignore the convoy and charge the escorts instead.
To finish task for Submarine Event you need two battles.
1 battle for USA side.
1 battle for German side.
If I can do it like that, anyone can. I am really poor navy player.
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You can finish each task in single battle.
Again though we asked to buff points for playing the objective. Even if people are terrible naval players they should still be rewarded for doing things the smart way. You can get 2000+ points in one battle on the US side but for me the maximum I have seen for the U-boats is ~1800. While it is possible to get the achievement in only 2 battles it’s only feasible if you attack the player destroyer escorts instead of going for the cargo ships.
It’s ending on Sunday anyway so it doesn’t matter but if Gaijin adds this back in again as an event I hope they listen to us. Otherwise they’ll be showing the community that they ignore the valid and genuine criticism to the game and gamemodes.
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I got 2478 points as a uboat yesterday :) admittedly teams make the difference and going after enemy players will add up faster then the objective
Suggestion
From submerged 3PV submarines ought to get directional audio information (way more than whatever can be heard currently). This would allow the player to be their own hydrophone operator; it’s not like there’s anything else to do down there.
Sound can travel a long way, so it would be a highly useful and 100% realistic tool for the player. It was the hydrophone operator on Prinz Eugen who first detected the approach of Hood & Prince of Wales, so for warships at high speed we’re looking at something >15 km (range of final salvo v Hood).
As IRL, when listening towards the stern the sound of your own propellor would drown out all else.
Surface ships could of course have the same, but they already hear all the above-surface sounds, so it might seem odd and the other sounds would make it harder for the player to interpret the sub-surface audio, so passive sonar is probably best left to the crew, as in the current event.
So after a lot more battles I have some more feedback and ideas about the gameplay, balance ect. Firstly I fully understand that this is a very basic testing event and basically all mechanics are WIP, but I still think that we can already see the key areas which need real work and more polish.
Sonar
The modeling of the sonar is obviously very basic but I honestly really like the idea of implementing it into minimap and 3D view instead of special elements like radar. I feel that if the sonar were to have its own UI element the HUD would get very very fractured and poorly legible especially when we should have radar on most ships.
But nevertheless I would say that we should get more detailed sonar models and better UI representation. Currently there are some confusing aspects to its model in the event.
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Passive sonar - In my opinion the passive sonar shouldn´t provide the range to the target, especially not a precise one. I would say that passive sonar contacts would be better represented by line which would very roughly show the range.
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Active sonar - The representation is incomplete, there should be 2 aspects of the sonar
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I would say that the 3D view well represents the close range sonar with depth calculating capacity although it lacks blind spots and the real ranges
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But the second aspect - long range scan practically doesn’t exist even though I think repurposing the passive sonar markers would make for good representation.
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Another thing is that submarines lack any form of sonar, which is IMO big mistake
I made some pictures to illustrate the sonar ideas.
It is very similar to radar but the info is shown on the minimap which I feel is a very helpful thing since it should provide better information. The passive sonar is represented by the red lines and the “searchlight” sonar is represented by the red dots showing the bearing and the range. Other parts of the sonar are displayed too.
Another idea is that the sonar could maybe provide some info about the ship on the sonar like the radar provides the suspected type of the contact (surface warship/sub/cargo ship ect.)
Destroyer UI
I see two main issues, aiming of the DC. The guessing of where the DC hit is very very detrimental to the ability of DDs to hunt subs, and it will be even harder for the longer ranger ASW armament. Not to mention things like Hedgehog mortars which should require direct hit would be basically unusable.
The second is the whole selection system which I think will be very confusing and unwieldy especially for ships with more ASW armament.
I believe that both of these could be easily solved by adapting the torpedo aiming system and selection system for the ASW armament. Where one button would allow to highlight the aiming indicators and even cycle between them and the second one would launch the DC, Mortars ect. just like with torpedoes.
This new selection system also doesn ́t take up more space in the bar then the current system which uses different buttons for mortars and DCR. But I would say that it would also allow for greater control.
Submarine UI
It is understandable that this aspect needs most polish and work, but I think that the movement system is good as it is. The depth control is easy to understand and works well (even if the max speed curve needs more polish).
My main issue is once again with the armament selection and armament options. I have several suggestions and thought about this:
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Gyro torpedoes The ability of subs to attack anything other then slow convoy is severely limited by the need to steer the whole sub to target the ships. So as others also mentioned I would like to see the ability to have gyro steered torpedoes.
I think the best way how to implement this mechanic would be to use the current torpedo FCS which we have in the bino/periscope view. But I think that having the player set the bearing manually would be too complicated but I would like to still have control if I use the gyro turning ability.
So I propose to add special button for firing gyro steering torpedoes. - This would use standard torpedoes but would fire them so they steer to the calculated bearing by the FCS. -
Armament selection For current testing we only have an option of launching torpedoes from bow and launching mines from stern. For testing purposes this is fine but I think that many of us would want more options in actual gameplay, ability to select different torpedo types, possible mines ect.
So I think that some kind of weapon selection system would be most welcome. And I think we can again look at how other ship types do that.
Other ship types have weapon groups primary, secondary and tertiary. So I think that adapting this system to submarines would be a big improvement to their gameplay. The groups could be as follows:
Primary - bow torpedo tubes
Secondary - stern torpedo tubes
Tertiary - the deck armament/other armament
Similarly as on surface vessels the player would also have the ability to select up to three different torpedoes/mines to launch from these tubes and in case of more modern submarines other kinds of equipment. -
Emergency surfacing - I would like to see expanded functionality for this button where it would act as an emergency dive when in periscope depth/surface.
In the bar you can see from left to right:
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Weapon group selection indicator for bow/stern torpedo tubes
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Acoustic torpedo - this could be further modification or something
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Fast short range torpedo
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Slow long range torpedo/Mine
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Button for gyro steered launch of torpedoes
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Periscope control
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Emergency dive/surfacing button
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Damage control buttons ect.
I think that all of these suggestions would improve the core of the Submarine/ASW gamaplay and make it more enjoyable.
There are also other issues and concerns I have with regards to the PvP gameplay on the current PvP maps and objectives but these I more of a speculation then a feedback.
5 Likes
After getting a hang of the mode, it became a little easier as the submarines to be effective and do the objective (though effectiveness still varies depending on how many experienceed naval players are on eiter team.)
The Catalinas are still super overpowered in the mode, as one 500lb bomb is a oneshot to a submarines that is between 0-20m, while the AA on the submarine is insufficient to deal with this kind of threat, so once the US team gets a lead, their odds of winning drastically increase.
Maybe giving the German side a fighter as a spawn option would remove the pressure of the submarines getting camped by PBYs in the later stages of the mission.
The depth mechanic also needs some work, as it is still very unclear just how long you can actually stay below 60m, since i had games where i was fine for 5+ minutes, and another game where my hull imploded after less than 60 seconds at the “dangerous depth” (with no previous damage).
If you could make it clear how long the sub could stay submerged, or make the damage more deterministic instead of random, it would help the subs to feel more confident in their primary element, which is being at depth.
The thing is, scoring in Naval is a global issue after the devs changed how scoring works in late 2021. If you don’t remember, they decreased score for kills and assists, but increased score for damage.
I have to admit, this idea makes perfect sense for objects that give you damage points. The problem is, there are objects in the game that don’t have the damage points attached to them, so all you get is a kill/assist score from them. And since that score is nowadays lowered, you get pretty much nothing for destroying such objects.
For example, Cargo Ships don’t give you any damage points (and this is the real problem!), so killing a Cargo Ship in Naval Arcade gives you 10 score:
Naval Bases also don’t give you any damage points, so destroying Naval Base gives you 2 score:
Naval Bases are currently disabled, because players didn’t like them. But guess why they didn’t like them? Look how long it takes to take them down, just to get 2 score. Simply because the devs never thought about attaching damage points to naval bases.
There’s also a problem with the score for killing planes in Naval. Because destroying planes again don’t give you damage points, you can only get a lowered score for a kill, when you destroy a plane with a vessel:
Spoiler
The problem with planes is even bigger, because planes are played by real players, and they are very dangerous. But killing them is just not worth it with this 2021 scoring system.
So the scoring on objects that don’t have damage points attached to them is a global issue in Naval game mode after the 2021 changes. I wrote about this problem a few times on the old forum, just no one cared about it. Right now everyone see this problem because of the event. But it doesn’t mean global scoring can’t be improved. To be honest, that should be done a long time ago, if only anyone cared about this issue.
4 Likes
My two cents on this event.
It’s really fun but unbalanced in favour of the US.
1 There are too many detroyers to defend the convoy. Should be korvets or fregates to make it a bit more realistic.
2 Sonar reach is too big. It’s impossible to sneak up on the convoy without being detected.
3 PBY is way to OP. It’s very difficult to shoot them down and too easy for them to get new bombs. Had a match where I could make 4 runs without being shot down and drowning several u-boats.
4 Once you get the hang of it it’s easier to kill an u-noat in a destroyer than the other way around.
5 He111 is almost useless. Only managed to torp a few convoy ships and 1 destroyer. Was shot down every time I used it. Managed to make 1 return to reload.
6 Targeting system on the u-boats are fine and working as intended. Managed to make several kills on a convoy ship from 2/3 km.
7 View from the u-boat under water is quite cinematic. First time gave me a “Das Boot” feel. :)
All in all it was a fun event with lot’s of possibilities for the future. U-boats can be a great asset to the game if balanced properly.
1 Like
does anyone know where to get the soundtrack for this event cuz its fire
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I really enjoyed this event, having some knowledge of WW2 submarine tactics from my readings. I discovered one little exploit - set depth at 4 metres, actual depth 5 metres and you can still run at surface speed without leaving a wake and with only the tops of some AA guns and an antenna visible at some times. This helped me a lot once I learned how best to use it.
I thought the depth restriction on the U-boat was ridiculous, as was the missing 88mm deck gun. The rewards were disappointing, the only thing I did with the carley float was put one on the rear deck of the HMNZS Leander as a tribute to HMAS Sydney II, a Leander class cruiser sunk by the German raider Kormoran off the Western Australian coast with the only piece of the Sydney found being a carley float. I do like the avatar though.
I thought the points given for sinking merchant vessels were awful though I have read that this was due to being unable to change them just for this event. It really just meant I had to play a few more games as the Germans than I did as the Americans. I’m really mission oriented so I strove to get away from the escorts and sink the merchantmen. I did enjoy one time I set a very dense minefield and watched as an escort charged toward them, turning to try to avoid them and then set every single one off, man, that was glorious!
I think submarines can have a place in the general game.
3 Likes
I used to be against subs in game, as I felt they wouldn’t fit, but after this event, I do think they would fit, and be very fun, so please, give us a few subs at least, and I especially cannot wait for the modern missile armed subs
3 Likes
Didn’t really enjoy playing the US side of the event, but the submarine gameplay is great. It would definitely be nice to see submarines get added to naval and anti submarine aircraft as a follow up
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Decent event. Hard no on adding subs to naval. I say this after hundreds of hours in coastal and bluewater ships; they’re not going to be easy to balance and won’t be fun for anyone to fight in or against.
3 Likes