A pair of interesting M113 modifications, courtesy of the 5/7 RAR
M113A1 (106mm RCL)
Armor, January-February 1997 Edition
This example appears to be of the same construction as the other vehicle in previous images, except this one has 61A on the side rather than 61C, so it’s possibly another vehicle from 5/7 RAR.
#anthonyalbanese #richardmarles #peterdutton #australianarmy… | Daniel Cotterill | 32 comments
M125A1 (Milan)
The M125A1 is the mortar variant of the M113A1, and so the Milan launcher was incorporated in a most interesting way, (unfortunately) replacing the 81mm mortar in the process. You can see however, that the Milan can be lowered into the hull by way of a hydraulic lift, which would be a really cool feature in-game.
Bonus image
M113A1 with M74C turret
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Not 100% sure if this is Australian, as I don’t remember if the U.S. ever used the M74C turret operationally.
Also, the Wargame: Red Dragon wiki claims that the Australians also mounted L6 Wombat RCLs on their Land Rovers, same as the British. I didn’t bother looking too much into this because it’s basically impossible to differentiate from the UK ones when it comes to an ID standpoint.
Rover Wombat | Wargame Wiki | Fandom
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The Australian MK.3 Centurions where upgraded to MK.5/1 (armour added to glacis and a .50 cal coax added for ranging) prior to Vietnam.
You can see the addon plate here:
Spoiler
Here’s one in Vietnam, you can see the duel Coax MG of the MK5/1:
Spoiler
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Great find, some fantastic images
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Could be, but it is a pretty grainy image. Australia did use M113s with the M74C turret for a short time in Vietnam, but they were replaced by the T50 turret fairly quickly. The ARVN had M74C equipped vehicles too, could be one of theirs.
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It seems plausible to be either vehicle then, we would need further imagery or information about the unit to know.
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Great find. I had heard of the MILAN one before and seen a photo or two, then forgot about it since it’s so hard to come by. Plus the Land Rovers I have in the tech tree seemed like they’d be more effective due to their speed and unique compared to other M113s in the game.
That said, I’d like to add these to the tree along with the LP1 casemate-style 2pdr, there being more than one of the 106mm RCL M113 is also encouraging. With any luck I’ll find the time to do it this weekend.
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And if you weren’t already aware, I also posted a new image for the MILAN-equipped Land Rover in your suggestion for it.
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I double checked the WOMBAT thing, and I’m pretty sure that was Wargame taking liberties again. I’m not even sure Australia had WOMBATs at all, we might only have had MOBAT which is heavier and so far I’ve found no reference of them being used on a vehicle. Doesn’t mean one won’t show up though.
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It’s in tune for them, as you may notice that they also gave the ANZAC faction the Tracked Rapier (albeit it is stated in the wiki that this is intended as a representation of the standalone ones).
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Didn’t they also give the ANZACs a Vickers Mk.11 in that game? Never even tested by us afaik, despite being designed for an Australian tender.
Yeah that too, not a clue why though, probably just needed some sort of assault gun that Australia couldn’t really offer.
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I’ve started integrating the M113s and LP1 carrier in to the suggestion (specs added for a couple so far). I hope you don’t mind I used the websites and images you provided links to.
And for my own personal reference for when I get to doing the tech tree images, I plan on putting the M113A1 106mm RCL at BR 7.3, I looked at the other tanks in game using the gun and quite frankly it’d be one of the best. Australian M113A1s had a more powerful 300hp engine, so the power to weight is actually going to be decent. The two closest were the T114 (BR 7.7) which has similar armour protection but less crew, while having a worse power to weight ratio it also has a very good reload speed. Then there was the SPz 12-3 LGS (BR 6.7) which has worse armour, worse mobility. The only thing going for it really is the 20mm but the M113A1 still has a fiddy cal, so I can see it being a higher BR than the SPz while, despite the better mobility and the slight increase in survivability vs the T114, the reload speed will not put it above or even equal with that.
I still need to double check the engine specs and what not of our M125A1s before making a call on the MILAN carrier. It could be similar to the Giraf at 8.3. Also depends on our model MILAN which I forget right now.
Edit: Looks like we had the MILAN 1.
Edit 2: The M113A1 106mm RCL, M125A1 MILAN and LP1 Carrier 2-pdr have now been added to the suggestion. I went with BR 8.3 for the M125A1, it has a worse missile than the two I-TOW equipped M113s but it also has a better engine, so…I guess it’s reasonably close enough to put it at the same BR in the suggestion.
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I’ve just put in my Honourable Mentions section to the op. I may add to it, but for now I’m happy with what I’ve got in there.
Just checked some of the sources you’ve linked and found some more Aussie vehicles, one named the ASLAV Armour-Dillo. Looks pretty interesting, perhaps similar performance to the Russian 2S23 Nona?
The mortar it used was the Royal Ordnance 120mm
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I’ve discussed the 120mm mortar on the forums with others before and unfortunately it just doesn’t seem like we have any evidence of a round that could be useful in the game for it. Even the best 120mm mortar rounds in all of NATO today would barely pass as usable in the game.
That is a shame, all I can find is a HE round but no specific information on its penetration, explosive mass, etc.
:(
From memory right now they are around 2-3kg TNT.
Best you’re gonna get are the Swedish STRIX and THOR rounds, as I believe we have discussed before. STRIX due to its HEAT warhead and THOR due to its almost 5kg of TNT. Both of these rounds would be very strange to see on an Australian vehicle, of course, and there may need to be some unhistorical concessions made for the STRIX performance wise.
There’s also a German prototype guided 120mm mortar round called the Bussard/Buzzard, which features a HEAT warhead. Like the STRIX, it’s meant to be fired in an arc and guided down onto a target, however, the HEAT warhead should still function as normal if used in a direct fire role. It also required a laser designation for guidance, so it should perform like any other dumb round if fired without a designation. This round was also modified and entered into the PGMM XM395 program but was not adopted.
It’s also worth noting that Soviet 120mm gun/mortars are supposedly compatible with NATO 120mm mortar rounds. Ukraine allegedly puts American M1101 120mm HE mortar rounds through captured 2S23 Nona-SVKs. This means that there is a chance that NATO gun/mortars could fire Soviet 120mm mortar rounds, which, includes ones with HEAT warheads. Of course, there’s no direct proof of this and it would still be strange to find Soviet ammunition on NATO vehicles.
It’s really up to how much Gaijin wants gun/mortars in the game.
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New SPAA? It seems to mount twin Oerlikon 20mm cannons
FORT GELLIBRAND, WILLIAMSTOWN, VIC. 1943-01-26. A TWIN 20-MM. GUN MOUNTED ON A TRACK BEING FIRED … | Australian War Memorial
Was tested at the same time and location as the 40mm Bofors vehicle we already know
FORT GELLIBRAND, WILLIAMSTOWN, VIC. 1943-01-26. AN AUSTRALIAN-MADE ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN BEING TESTED … | Australian War Memorial
I also found another source for the M113 106mm RCL, in which an ammunition count of 16 is stated
Bonus image(s)
Spoiler
Captured anti-aircraft truck and technical by 1 RAR in Somalia, Operation Solace 1993
Unit History – 2nd / 4th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment Association
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