The M430A1 actually penetrates 76mm of armor. Standard M430 penetrates 51mm. I’ve been preaching the good word of AGL capability for a while now so it’s great to see someone else dipping their toes in.
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That’s pretty darn good. It probably doesn’t change my opinion on the BR just because of the velocity, but it would definitely help it.
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For sure. 76mm of pen makes 40mm AGLs better than the Rh202’s DM63 at point blank range against flat plate. The poor velocity will greatly reduce the situations it could be used in but it should still be perfectly viable in any CQC run-and-gun situation. There’s also a proximity grenade available called M684 for that bit of extra utility though I don’t know how effective they’d be against aircraft with such a low velocity.
Also, fun fact, the AH-1G used to use the M430A1 with 76mm of penetration but Gaijin nerfed it to the weaker M430.
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That is an LP1 carrier. Mounting a small anti tank gun like the 2 pounder on a little carrier chassis was a very, very popular idea, I can think of at least four different attempts for Australia alone so there could easily be more, and then the UK and Canada for sure had their own designs, I not be at all would surprised if there many more from different corners of the globe.
That footage of the LP1 was lifted from here, starts around the 13 minute mark:
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C191679
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I was already envisioning the ability to try and lob grenades from behind cover, or potentially hitting vehicles just behind a hill from long range because of the trajectory. I had done a little testing with the squadron BMP’s grenades as you can select them with the weapon selector now, and even with the laser rangefinder they required some small amount of skill to hit a moving target. But they are also a lower muzzle velocity.
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It looks like it might actually just be the field gun mounted to the floor of the Carrier? Is there an obvious way of telling if it’s an LP1 or LP2?
Yes, lots. The LP1 is riveted, LP2/2A welded. LP1 glacis plate meets the front plate higher up to clear the steering levers, LP2 doesn’t need this as it has a steering wheel. LP1 doesn’t have the ram air scoop the LP2 has. LP1 sprocket carrier is solid, LP2’s is ventilated and from memory has a lower tooth count. They are different in some way in detail, design, or construction, in almost every particular.
Slightly harder with that one as it has been heavily modified, and yes the 2 pounder is just the top part on the Mk III (?) carriage. The left side of the carrier has been shifted outwards to make room and then more plate, hopefully armour plate, has been used to build up the sides and elsewhere to protect the crew.
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So it’s an LP1? Are those rivets I see on the low glacis?
Also, with the recent 40mm grenades revelation I was slow on the ball with, do we want a Kiwi Pinzgauer? It looks goofy as anything, but I guess it would still work. Not sure if the BR should change though, 7.7-8.0 still probably.
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It’s an LP1, it is riveted, the top of the glacis plate ends right below the driver’s view port, the lighting here makes it difficult but it is just above the shadow of the circle of the driver’s gun sight, there’s nothing else around at the time that looks like that.
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When it comes to soft-skin vehicles with pintle mounted AGLs, the balance VS “immersion” metric gets thrown all out of whack. The AGL on the Hawkei has access to thermals, a stabilizer, and an LRF. The Hawkei itself is also STANAG 4569 whereas the Pinzgauer is just… not. The AGL on the Pinzgauer is also, again, just a on a pintle mount. No stabilization. No thermals. No LRF. Putting something like that at 7.7+ wouldn’t be too great of an idea since reactive mobility and stabilizers become normal from there onward.
Sure, it’d still be just as effective when used as arcing fire from a covered position but being vulnerable to even rifle caliber bullets from any distance and any angle is never good. Run and gunning would be harder too due to the lack of stabilizer, which would be very important for a weapon of such low velocity.
I always put such vehicles in the 6~ area in my custom trees but this is largely due to my personal complete disregard for “immersion” so I’m aware that this isn’t going to be a popular option. At the 6~ area they’d still retain their massive weaknesses but go against more vehicles with poor reactive mobility, allowing them to close the gap necessary for them to be capable of engaging in the first place. They could also serve as a natural predator for another vehicle class that’s be the source of controversy; SPHs.
All of this is to say that, even though I’d fully support their addition, soft-skin vehicles with pintle AGLs could probably cause more issues than they’re worth and should probably be relegated to the event/premium role at best until we can get a more solid view on how AGL-armed vehicles in general would perform in-game.
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+1, imo it would be kinda cool if uk tree turned into the whole commonwealth super tech tree
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Doesn’t the grenade launcher itself have a built in laser rangefinder on its sight? Or does that get removed when mounted on a vehicle? But yeah, all the other factors make it a little silly. No armour. No stabilizer isn’t as bad, just means a lower BR. And it looks very silly. In short, it’s not a vehicle designed for combat with other vehicles, but the AGL could allow it to do so in the game.
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You may be thinking of the Mk47, which does have its own LRF, however, the AGL mounted on the Pinzgauer is a Mk19, which, by itself, is completely manual. It requires additional attachments to laser rangefind. The AN/PEQ-2A is one such attachment. The photo you showed seem to feature an additional sight, which could house an LRF but I’m not sure as I cannot identify it. It’s also just completely in the hands of Gaijin and their idea of balance if these optional attachments are to be modeled in the first place.
Edit: Looking closer, the AGL mounted on the Pinzgauer appears to actually be a H&K GMG. Like the Mk19, the GMG doesn’t have its own LRF and utilizes attachments to supply it with one. The most notable of the GMG’s attachments is the Vinghøg Vingmate Fire Control System, which is very easily identified. Unfortunately, it is not present in your picture and is up to Gaijin’s discretion whether or not its added.
Here’s the GMG with the Vinghøg Vingmate FCS:
Spoiler
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Excellent identification and knowledge. Given how out of place the Pinzgauer itself is, combined with how difficult an AGL could be to use without a laser rangefinder while needing to be at a high enough BR that it’s not facing 1930s tanks, I’m going to leave the Pinzgauer out of the tree.
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A pair of interesting M113 modifications, courtesy of the 5/7 RAR
M113A1 (106mm RCL)
Armor, January-February 1997 Edition
This example appears to be of the same construction as the other vehicle in previous images, except this one has 61A on the side rather than 61C, so it’s possibly another vehicle from 5/7 RAR.
#anthonyalbanese #richardmarles #peterdutton #australianarmy… | Daniel Cotterill | 32 comments
M125A1 (Milan)
The M125A1 is the mortar variant of the M113A1, and so the Milan launcher was incorporated in a most interesting way, (unfortunately) replacing the 81mm mortar in the process. You can see however, that the Milan can be lowered into the hull by way of a hydraulic lift, which would be a really cool feature in-game.
Bonus image
M113A1 with M74C turret
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Not 100% sure if this is Australian, as I don’t remember if the U.S. ever used the M74C turret operationally.
Also, the Wargame: Red Dragon wiki claims that the Australians also mounted L6 Wombat RCLs on their Land Rovers, same as the British. I didn’t bother looking too much into this because it’s basically impossible to differentiate from the UK ones when it comes to an ID standpoint.
Rover Wombat | Wargame Wiki | Fandom
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The Australian MK.3 Centurions where upgraded to MK.5/1 (armour added to glacis and a .50 cal coax added for ranging) prior to Vietnam.
You can see the addon plate here:
Here’s one in Vietnam, you can see the duel Coax MG of the MK5/1:
Spoiler
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Great find, some fantastic images
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Could be, but it is a pretty grainy image. Australia did use M113s with the M74C turret for a short time in Vietnam, but they were replaced by the T50 turret fairly quickly. The ARVN had M74C equipped vehicles too, could be one of theirs.
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It seems plausible to be either vehicle then, we would need further imagery or information about the unit to know.
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Great find. I had heard of the MILAN one before and seen a photo or two, then forgot about it since it’s so hard to come by. Plus the Land Rovers I have in the tech tree seemed like they’d be more effective due to their speed and unique compared to other M113s in the game.
That said, I’d like to add these to the tree along with the LP1 casemate-style 2pdr, there being more than one of the 106mm RCL M113 is also encouraging. With any luck I’ll find the time to do it this weekend.
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