APDS shattering and APHE fuse failure

I’ve been thinking about APHE and fuse failures, and APDS shell shattering.

As far as I can tell, APDS shattering is pretty much the only failure model for ammunition which is modelled in the game.

APHE fuse failures were very common, there’s a reason the british removed the fillter and fuses from the 75mm shells, it wasn’t for fun and games.

It seems very unfair for one failure mode to be implmented and not the others.

So, why is this?


I take it you’re a British main?


Such valuable input thank you.


That is irrelevant to the discussion

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If it’s realistic, I think it’s great that they added it, after all, the garbage damage model that Gaijin invented is quite embarrassing.

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Sure, and that’s fine, as long as it’s not the only failure mode modelled., and the shattering is corrected so it actually behaves correctly and doesnt’ shatter when it shouldn’t (looking at the t-55am1’s magic frontal plate).

It makes no sense for APDS to have it’s failure modes modelled, and yet the other incredibly common failure mode doesn’t exist at all.


The difference in performance between APHE and all other types of bullets is simply enormous.

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You want my input? I think this could defiantly have a place in game. But the way the OP says it, it sounds like a complaining so that’s why asked if they we’re a British main. Only a British main would ask for something like this. Or maybe a crazy German/US main.

Well, I mean, considering the hit/miss ratio for A-t-A missiles are extremely low, even in a very straight line, they tend to not want to hit anything. This isn’t modeled in game, but it still happens in real life, just gaijin being gaijin, also, shell shattering happens because the targets armor you just shot is too angled.

Very common for British fuzes.
Not in general.

It was american ammunition which the fuses were removed from. Not british fuses.

But the american did use theirs, while the british didnt bother going in that direction anymore with their other guns.
It beeing removed from american ammo because british fuzes were bad (and such didnt find use in general) doesnt mean american fuzes are bad.

The tests led to the stated conclusion that shot held no particular advantages over shell, but that the base-detonated fuses of US AP rounds had a tendency to detonate the rounds prematurely. A memorandum was sent from ETO to Ordnance, under Eisenhower’s signature, calling for an immediate remedy to the fusing, or if that wasn’t possible calling for all further AP ammunition to ETO to be provided un-fused with an inert filler.

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Well, then perhaps US fuzes were also not of the greatest. But thats also WoT your linking too and even if they basis on something, the conclusion of 1 nation alone shouldnt be taken as granted, as seen that pretty much every other main nation still went with He filler.

But take several factors into account. The British soon abandoned the APHE projectiles and those received from the Americans removed the filling. The Germans generally used little HE charge in their APHE so that what is the core of the bullet would not fragment as much. The Soviets were technologically behind on the issue of bullets. And finally, the Americans, as soon as they were able to make bullets with good heat treatment, left aside the APHE to use only APBC (in fact they even discarded the APC).

Well, they also went with even higher velocitys while befor that they generally also had great amount of fillers which also weakened the shell.

But in summary that aside, there is no reason nor a real way fuze failer should or could be implemented.
Apds/apcr shattering is when the core shatters at too high angle and when it allready penetrated a plate, that is even written in the German Aircraft ammo manual for H-Pzgr, to only shoot at naked armor as well as with as lowest angle as possible to increase penetration and resuce the chance of shattering.

That it is as bad as it is in game is just that Gaijin is simply bad at making it correct and uses bad RMG.

There absolutely is a way for fuse failure to be modeled.

High angles of impact will lead to fuse failures. Anything that would fragment the shell badly (IE: thick angled armor) will cause the APHE fuse to fail. It’s not that hard to really implement. You might shoot through an angled T-34’s upper plate with a 57mm APHE round, but the plate fragmented the round badly enough to destroy the fuse and render the filler inert.

This also can influence gameplay decisions, as APHE users will have to decide between shooting thicker, less angled armor to prevent fuse failure or thinner more angled armor to guarantee penetration.

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No thank you, there really isnt a basis behind it. And there shouldnt be more RNG than there allready is.
And there would be so much more to be taken into considderation, that its not viable. Like how the fuze works, place of fuze and such.

Gaijin shouldn’t have added APDS/APCR shatter to the game in the first place. I don’t think a single soul actually asked for that mechanic.


Having my 120mm APDS with enough kinetic energy to rip a black hole in space (slight exaggeration i’ll admit lol) shatter on a Tiger II UFP or some such is very… very depressing… There’s a reason it’s a whole BR above the Tiger II.

And that’s just scratching the surface.

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