Another prime example of being forgotten by the statistical balancing, the JA37D

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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Before it got nerfed HEAVILY in the flight model department, the JA37s used to have a better flight model than the Mig-23s. However, as always when something overperforms according to Gaijin, some “SeKrIt DoCuMeNtS” have been found to nerf the flight model.

You are now struggeling to dogfight F4Es. You bleed speed like a 21 and accelerate like an F5.

Combine that with the tracerless gun because the audacity of having a tracer round included (yes they exist, sweden didn’t just use them because unlike ingame, the radar gunsight doesn’t have an epileptic seizure) is to much of a historical inaccuracy. Because Gaijion would never ahistoriacally buff or nerf vehicles or weapons. Like the Stinger. Or the Abrams. Or the Leopard 2A4, A5, IRIS-T, SPIKE, Brimstones etc. ad absurdum.

A tracer is too much though, because then you could acually learn to shoot the gun.

The missile loadout is also mid at best. At 12.0 you find the F4S which get access to up six Aim-7Fs, you get a maximum of two 7-E2s. Which are good in a headon up to four km. If they actually track the target and don’t try to maim a teammate 40° offbore.

Your heatseekers are four (six if you ditch the 7E2s) Aim-9Ls, which are certainly decent for the BR, especially on a fighter, but just .3 above you sits the F16A, which gets access to six 9L and has a WAY better flight model.

At 11.7, .3 BRs below you, sits the Mig 23 ML family. All shit on you in top speed, turn performance and radar missiles. R23s are arguably better than the 7E2 already, the 24s blow them out of the water.

While the GSH is a water pistol, it actually gets a tracer. Wohoo, you can learn to lead you gun and don’t just have to guesstimate where your rounds go.

9Ls are better than R60s. That is one advantage you have over the Mig 23.

The other one is you get 360 countermeasures. So you can turn on periodic flares to prolong the iinevitable.

Coming back to the topic, a lot of planes like the JA37 are just forgotten. They had a glory period and then fell off. With the main grinding method being premiums now, these planes do not see enough play to be affected by Gaijns balancing “algorithm”. They don’t seem to see enough play, and those that play them are usually not the average joe, which result in higher-than-average stats.

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The documents aren’t secret and were posted on the bug report site.

Delta wing bleeds more speed when it has more lift area than engine power as a sidebar.

As for the relative BR to the Mig-23ML…
The Mig-23ML has a worse radar with similar radar missiles [thus better because PD > pulse radar] and worse IR missiles.
The Mig-23ML is worse.

The Viggen D will always be a higher BR than the inferior Mig-23ML.

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Yet the ‘documents’ are literally interpreted wrong, and the flight model is still wrong, implementing the flight model of what the AJ37 viggen the first class of the plane, which had a crappier engine and overall performance because of it.

Fr @Grossaaaa

I literally have studied almost every aspect of the available manuals, and a majority of Swedish planes and tech itself

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Glad you and I agree about potential misunderstandings Gaijin had on the documents.

If he has evidence that all Viggen documents are wrong, I’d love to hear it.
Otherwise he should just accept the evidence.

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First things first…they need to fix bol

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i dont see any agreement between you two lmao

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You just replied to it.
Zyranovos added context to my post, strengthening it.
Glad to see more people agreeing with us.

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He literally said that the statistics from the documents used to nerf the JA37 are the ones from the AJ37.

They used the wrong plane to nerf another but similar plane.

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Yes, which I agree with.
I am not sure why your initial post was so hostile when you could’ve asked for that information from me yourself or wait until his post to begin with to find out my personal position.

All my initial post said was that the documents used are public, nothing more.
I spoke not about the accuracy of the flight model in-game in the initial post, just a general idea about wing [or lifting as a better term] area’s relationship with available energy output.

And my only disagreement for your original post was the relative BR to Mig-23ML, as air RB at that stage cares more about the strength of aircraft radars and the strength of IR missiles than it does about dogfighting.

That is all, a minor disagreement about relative BRs with an initial attempt to calm your nerves at the start.
I am on your side overall.

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He just ruins any thread he replies too and lil bit unhinged he speaks anything and and his statement are mostly sounds like rage baits

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Please make an issue if possible about this. It would genuinely be very appreciated.

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If that’s what you were trying to say why not outright say it, that’s why people get mad at you.

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I would but I don’t know how to pull in game data to prove it wrong.

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I think u cannot use data mine info to report I can be wrong

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I think recordings and images showing the performance under specific conditions compared to the official documents combined with good reasoning would be enough. This accepted issue may help: Community Bug Reporting System

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Cause I was getting stressed at the 405 errors [which is a backend issue with the forum “architecture” itself and not specific to the War Thunder forum], and forgot my initial thoughts.
Your post reminded me of them.

@ares94r I am saying War Thunder is imperfect… specifically about Viggen.

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Right, because the error 405 means "it’s opposite day now and we’ll run your message through GPT with the prompt “plase write a paragraph with the opposite meaning of the inital text” ".

Maybe, just maybe, don’t write out generalized half-thruths so that you can change your “facts” into whatever the flavor of the day is.

Or do I have to remind you of the time where you vehemently argued that the Mig29 has a better flight model than the Mirage 2000?

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@Grossaaaa
The time I argued that Mirage 2000 has superior flight performance to Mig-29 for dogfights.*
Corrected it for you.

I never said the Mig-29 was better in dogfights and never will.
I said in the context of air RB that Mig-29’s flight performance was good enough to be equivalent at the speeds air RB utilizes [>/=800kph].

I’ve never used an AI service and never will either.

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There’s a developer stat window that people use to pull data directly from the live game…

That’s how they helped nerf the MiG-23, the Viggen was shown flight manuals only (for the AJ/AJS with the early ‘RM-8A’ engine, not the RM-8B that the JA37’s used…)

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I’ve tried and they denied it before.