not that I can access facebook from where I live…
at least it’s the most realistic story. The remains were found at someone’s ownership called Jacques Passenaud. Apparently he was salvage yard owner. Before, there were rumours that AMX 50 was stoled by criminals, but I dont think it was that cinematographic
I think in the game splitting this tank into M4 and AMX 50 actually makes sense. They differ visually and in armor thickness, and this approach allows for a better differentiation between late and early models of this tank.
As for the proposed tank, in the game it should definitely be called AMX 50 (TOA120). However, I think it’s fine to just call it the AMX 50-120 in conversation just for simplicity.
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Surblinde should also have better horizontal and vertical drives and a rotating commander’s cupola.
The difference is definitely not major. And vehicle naming shouldn’t be dependant on how easy or hard it is to identify said vehicle. Not to mention it would be at the same level as being able to identify the eight different Panzer III’s, seven Panzer IV’s, seven M4 Shermans, seven T-34’s etc. etc.
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They have significantly different frontal parts (thickness and assembly method), as well as different radiator caps. This is quite a significant difference, especially considering that other versions of the AMX 50 (excluding Surbaisse and Surblinde) differed only in turrets.
Both names for this tank are historically correct. The AMX 50 was called the M4 at least until the end of 1951.
If you want absolute historical accuracy, then this tank should be renamed Char de 50t AMX and Char de 55t AMX for the versions with 100 mm and 120 mm turrets, respectively. The name AMX-50 is also somewhat incorrect.
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You’ll see both types of engine decks on tanks with the sharp front end
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Why would you exclude the Surbaisse and Surblinde? Seems arbitrary. And no, contextually they are very similar. Like how the Panzer IV Ausf G and Ausf H are very similar. I never said they were identical.
Never claimed it wasn’t. Just that if I had a say, I would prefer a streamlined naming scheme.
Absolutely agree. I don’t like the “AMX-50” made up name. But I’m not going to argue against it since its use even includes experts.
And slight correction, the TOA 120 equipped vehicle was called char de 54 tonnes. Though as the thing never had an official name, it was still called char de 50 tonnes in some documents. Though as I wrote that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was also called char de 55t in some other document.
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it’s not made up, it’s used for short reference, less confusing as well. This is a reason people use AMX-50, SOMUA SM, FCM 50t instead of char de 50t AMX/SOMUA/FCM. Short and comprehensive, for same reason we refer to tanks like Panther as Pz.V, despite Pz.V-Pz.VIII identifiers being made up too
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indeed there is a photo with that, however, the front plates and armor are crucial difference
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The Surblinde and Surbaisse have their own names, which make it easy to distinguish them from other AMX 50, and they themselves are quite different. With the rest of the tanks of this series things are not so simple.
No problem, I understand your point. Just saying that the AMX M4/50 split is generally historical and makes naming a bit easier from a game perspective.
Plus, there may be a conflict between the names in the future. For example, if we name the current M4 as AMX 50 (TO90), then in the future this name will conflict with a tank with a late hull and the same turret. The same applies to versions with TO100.
Yes, it had many different names. The French themselves never decided on its name.
In any case, a document dated January 23, 1953, calls it Char de 55t
Spoiler
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That makes it made up?
Poor example, as the Panthers, Tigers and even Löwe were designated/called Pz.kpfw. V-VII. The Maus however was not called Pz.kpfw. VIII.
And I agree with you otherwise. As long as we all know which vehicle is being referred to, that’s great. But I get a distaste when an informal name is presented as formal. And here in WT where all vehicles otherwise use their formal names, I don’t like it.
made up is when the name has no sourcing, like AMX-56 for Leclerc - nothing but purely what the journalists have given to it. Meanwhile AMX 50 has a basis, just like every other vehicle - with the manufacturer name and specific value (mass in this case) presented
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Hoping this gets added and foldered under the surbaisse along with a reload buff to the surblinde as well.
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Would be a nice secondary tech tree 120mm (foldered with Surbaissé)
Additional picture:
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Would love to see some work done on modelling solid shot penetration the 120mm just seems really lacklustre and inaccurate compared to the 100mm on the AMX-50-100.
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It’s because it’s based off of the American 120 mm M358 AP, which is notoriously underperforming, as are all US AP rounds made after the 90 mm M77.
The penetration calculator would have to be modified for them to be fixed, which would result in ~145 mm pen at 60° for the 120 mm AP.
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That makes more sense
+1 in a folder