The AMX 50 “Surblinde” (TO 120) should share the same 5s reload rate and capacity (17), as both the TO 120 and TOA 120 turrets shared the same autoloader. As can be seen by your documents.
The name itself should also be AMX-50 (TOA 120) to match the current in game naming scheme.
The two are the same just as the Ferdinand and Elefant are the same, or the IS-122 and IS-2 are the same. The M4 name was used between 1945-1950, but it faded out of use in documents over simply referring to the tank as the 50 tonne medium tank (by AMX).
they arent. Meanwhile mentioned ones are either different designations or just mg mount, AMX M4 and AMX 50 are different hulls.
You can distinguish the M4 and AMX-50 hulls from eachother by:
Looking at the rear roof
Looking at the part between UFP/LFP.
If the vehicle has two fans sticking out the top of it’s rear, coupled by a flat part in-between the UFP and LFP, then it’s an AMX M4. If the vehicle has fans that do not stick out, with the UFP/LFP now connected, then it’s an AMX-50.
at least it’s the most realistic story. The remains were found at someone’s ownership called Jacques Passenaud. Apparently he was salvage yard owner. Before, there were rumours that AMX 50 was stoled by criminals, but I dont think it was that cinematographic
I think in the game splitting this tank into M4 and AMX 50 actually makes sense. They differ visually and in armor thickness, and this approach allows for a better differentiation between late and early models of this tank.
As for the proposed tank, in the game it should definitely be called AMX 50 (TOA120). However, I think it’s fine to just call it the AMX 50-120 in conversation just for simplicity.
The difference is definitely not major. And vehicle naming shouldn’t be dependant on how easy or hard it is to identify said vehicle. Not to mention it would be at the same level as being able to identify the eight different Panzer III’s, seven Panzer IV’s, seven M4 Shermans, seven T-34’s etc. etc.
They have significantly different frontal parts (thickness and assembly method), as well as different radiator caps. This is quite a significant difference, especially considering that other versions of the AMX 50 (excluding Surbaisse and Surblinde) differed only in turrets.
Both names for this tank are historically correct. The AMX 50 was called the M4 at least until the end of 1951.
If you want absolute historical accuracy, then this tank should be renamed Char de 50t AMX and Char de 55t AMX for the versions with 100 mm and 120 mm turrets, respectively. The name AMX-50 is also somewhat incorrect.
Why would you exclude the Surbaisse and Surblinde? Seems arbitrary. And no, contextually they are very similar. Like how the Panzer IV Ausf G and Ausf H are very similar. I never said they were identical.
Never claimed it wasn’t. Just that if I had a say, I would prefer a streamlined naming scheme.
Absolutely agree. I don’t like the “AMX-50” made up name. But I’m not going to argue against it since its use even includes experts.
And slight correction, the TOA 120 equipped vehicle was called char de 54 tonnes. Though as the thing never had an official name, it was still called char de 50 tonnes in some documents. Though as I wrote that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was also called char de 55t in some other document.
it’s not made up, it’s used for short reference, less confusing as well. This is a reason people use AMX-50, SOMUA SM, FCM 50t instead of char de 50t AMX/SOMUA/FCM. Short and comprehensive, for same reason we refer to tanks like Panther as Pz.V, despite Pz.V-Pz.VIII identifiers being made up too