AMX-30 Super - Made in France, Perfected by Germany

[An_Pigeon]

@dotSHINI

best comparison

An Pigeon:

But its more like the opposite is it not? like its a french tank, made in france, with only half german components.

Quite an interesting discussion tho

@dotSHINI

Multiple important parts have been changed, its not just an MG stuck on top. Its game relevant changes. There are not the same vehicle anymore.

They changed the FCS and engine, and the magnification of the optics as far as im aware, its not like they fully rebuilt the tank.
But for game relevant changes suppose so there.
As for ingame TBH if the 30B2 had a stab it would be nearly on par with the 30S, bad maybe in mobility.

@dotSHINI

You are invited to show me a Leopard with 130mm cannon. the 1 140mm cannon is so unknown it hardly can be added the 2nd one is swiss.
Not to mention those not being modern variants , but realy old leopards.

As for the 130mm its in testing as we all know.

even wiki has a shtty little mention of it, but going to rheimental shows the same thing
“In 2015 Rheinmetall disclosed that it was developing a new 130 mm (5.1 in) smoothbore gun for the Leopard 2 tank and its successor” , though rhiemental just says theyre developing hte 130mm

@dotSHINI

The other similar case would be the Boxer MGS. German chassis, belgian turret.

yet its not in the benelux tree?
Weird int it

@dotSHINI

As a result i believe it should be added to UK and germany. Like Other co developments.

As for the CR2 130mm sure thing man, its literally an amalgimation of rhiemental and BEAs stuff its not as if its just a 130mm gun slammed into a CR2.
Like the CR3 TD / CR3 when it eventually arrives shoudl be british alone.

@dotSHINI

Ended up in germany cause it was the project country and designer, following that example chally 130 would got to germany alone.

But it wasnt just germany alone on that, all evidence ive seen points to it being BEA allowing them to use the CR2 hull in the first place.

Regardless its one of those ones, goes to both trees or neither.

Were at the stage now IMO if its going to be mixed, we go the full way, or we dont go at all.
This in the middle ground is silly, like a suggestion for a chieftain mk4 or mk2 cant mind, to go to isreal as a prem was passed, yet it never even made it to isreal.

yet the M1A2 and Leopard 2A4 trialed by britain cant go to britain.
Literally trialed.

This is what I mean man, it gets pretty dang silly, a CR2 130 could be a wicked Event tank that is for germany and britain and players could choose what one to get.

Rather than this random AF no consistency , as you say the boxer in germany on its tod, the KF41 and all this. then you ahve DF105 shared, the little AMX 13 dart slinger shared. etc etc etc.

They need to make their mind up

[dotSHINI]

@An_Pigeon

But its more like the opposite is it not? like its a french tank, made in france

indian woman, moved to germany. never left germany afterwards. its pretty much exactly as i said.

AMX 30 Super has the french origins , nobody is declining that, but it is german afterwards a lot has been changed.

@An_Pigeon

They changed the FCS and engine, and the magnification of the optics as far as im aware, its not like they fully rebuilt the tank.

and the tracks, and cooler and additional armor and so on.
A lot has been changed over it. Again its where does one draw the line.
With the same argument you are calling the ukrainian T-84 oplot russian.

@An_Pigeon

even wiki has a shtty little mention of it, but going to rheimental shows the same thing
“In 2015 Rheinmetall disclosed that it was developing a new 130 mm (5.1 in) smoothbore gun for the Leopard 2 tank and its successor” , though rhiemental just says theyre developing hte 130mm

its wiki, its not up to date. Germany started the project for a leo 2ax with possible 130mm cannon now.
But thats years in the future and right now not relevant since we wont see it for years.

@An_Pigeon

yet its not in the benelux tree?
Weird int it

weird event vehicle rule.

@An_Pigeon

Like the CR3 TD / CR3 when it eventually arrives shoudl be british alone.

dotSHINI:

fully agree, but difference. Chally 130, Designed and built/modified in germany, tested there as well. Never leaved germany. Built to show of the 130mm capability and function to GERMANY in the competition against the french Ascalon. This is officialy stated by rheinmetall.

Chally 3 is designed specialy for the UK, being built there, and gonna be in service. Huge difference.

@An_Pigeon

all evidence ive seen points to it being BEA allowing them to use the CR2 hull in the first place.

they allowed it yes, but there werent part of it. They had no hands on it and makes BAE in that sense ignorable. But we still say it should go to UK as well, cause its a vehicle not inservice anywhere and its origin is in UK.

@An_Pigeon

yet it never even made it to isreal.

can always happen

@An_Pigeon

They need to make their mind up

officialy statement how to handle it in the future would be best yes
But just like we are waiting for the damn KLH 38MT answer

[An_Pigeon]

@dotSHINI

but it is german afterwards a lot has been changed.

Suppose but its whole purpose was to go back to france, not remain where it did.

@dotSHINI

additional armor

Additional armour? where :o

@dotSHINI

A lot has been changed over it. Again its where does one draw the line.

Genuinely for as much as ive read about the 30 super id like to know more on it as I dont know specifically all that has changed, like I said.

@dotSHINI

With the same argument you are calling the ukrainian T-84 oplot russian.

An Pigeon:

Suppose thats the same as folks that call a T90A /M a T72 xD

Nah I get your point man, im just discussing it as its quite an interesting vehicle, reckon if it was TT in the french tree it would already ahve been moved over to Germany.

@dotSHINI

its wiki, its not up to date. Germany started the project for a leo 2ax with possible 130mm cannon now.

Actually the wiki I think is moderately up to date, as it says they only disclosed in 2015 that they were developing the cannon, then ofc what 4/5 years ago that test bed CR2 showed up.
But yeah agreed its not likely to show up on the 2AX (is that mad leopard Leclerc combo still on the cards?)

@dotSHINI

weird event vehicle rule.

An Pigeon:

Shambolic!! move it!! to them both.
Nah I get that TBH

@dotSHINI

Chally 3 is designed specialy for the UK, being built there, and gonna be in service. Huge difference.

As well as that its mostly BEA and such working on it rather than as you stated the 130 was basically a CR2 hull with rheimental going crazy with it.
(looks cool af)

@dotSHINI

fully agree, but difference. Chally 130, Designed and built/modified in germany, tested there as well. Never leaved germany. Built to show of the 130mm capability and function to GERMANY in the competition against the french Ascalon. This is officialy stated by rheinmetall.

Yeah dug a bit more into it and cant argue the point at all.

@dotSHINI

they allowed it yes, but there werent part of it. They had no hands on it and makes BAE in that sense ignorable. But we still say it should go to UK as well, cause its a vehicle not inservice anywhere and its origin is in UK.

An Pigeon:

Yeah I realised that the bit more I went into it.

@dotSHINI

can always happen

An Pigeon:

I mean they looked over 2 Chieftain Mk2s then it got binned.

@dotSHINI

officialy statement how to handle it in the future would be best yes

100 percent man its such a joke how they are doing it RN

@dotSHINI

But just like we are waiting for the damn KLH 38MT answer

we have reasurance from credible source 38MT has a 1000km range sorta answer is coming xD

[dotSHINI]

@An_Pigeon

Suppose but its whole purpose was to go back to france, not remain where it did.

but france declined it, they literaly said they dont want it.
With the same argument why should it be in france when they clearly didnt want it?

@An_Pigeon

Additional armour? where :o

is named in the wiki
“Additional turret armour is also available per buyer request.” if that one is not implemented it, there we would have the case. Give germany the better armored version

@An_Pigeon

is that mad leopard Leclerc combo still on the cards?

EMBT still is a thing, but they only are tech demonstrators realy, nevery realy supposed for actual service

[Armen_Lozone]

either way, they are both TH products unless it was put into service in which case SA would have primary claim. currently. Germany does

[An_Pigeon]

@dotSHINI

but france declined it, they literaly said they dont want it.
With the same argument why should it be in france when they clearly didnt want it?

Yeah fair point xD remove it from the game no one wanted it.

@dotSHINI

is named in the wiki
“Additional turret armour is also available per buyer request.” if that one is not implemented it, there we would have the case. Give germany the better armored version

Seems a bit bogus there though doesn’t it, if they should be added equally not one better than the other.
The other aspect is balancing it, as remember germany is a far larger player base so has more worse players statistically speaking. so it may affect how the 30S is Br’d

@dotSHINI

Give germany the better armored version

why not buff its armour on the french and then make them both equal?

@dotSHINI

EMBT still is a thing, but they only are tech demonstrators realy, nevery realy supposed for actual service

Aye I suppose so, the Euro MBt would be cool though

[dotSHINI]

@An_Pigeon

if they should be added equally not one better than the other.

that argument is mostly for the anti copy paste specialists.

@An_Pigeon

The other aspect is balancing it, as remember germany is a far larger player base so has more worse players statistically speaking. so it may affect how the 30S is Br’d

tell that the 2s38, vidar , pzh2k and so on. As long as it makes money gajin doesnt mind

@An_Pigeon

why not buff its armour on the french and then make them both equal?

that argument is mostly for the anti copy paste specialists.
Answered above

@An_Pigeon

Aye I suppose so, the Euro MBt would be cool though

definitly and should be added to both france and germany.

Honestly its not germanys fault we have such a big ground industry, we shouldnt be punished for it.
In the meantime lookat air we are dead in the water

[MademoiselleSXXI]

Germany can have this one, and France can have the other stabilized upgraded AMX-30s that are out there, maybe even the other 32s. The title of ‘pErFecTeD by GerMaNy’ is worthy of an actual curb stomping, however

[dotSHINI]

the actual french guy saying it can go to germany
I applaud you

[MademoiselleSXXI]

Thank you, I just want nations to get what they made, and this is basically a German tank in a French exoskeleton
It’s the same as how people want GIAT-upgraded Russian tanks to go to France, the nation that did the work gets the reward imo

[An_Pigeon]

@dotSHINI

that argument is mostly for the anti copy paste specialists.

An Pigeon:

Eh at the end of the day this either has to be all or nothing.
The issue I think for most is the pick n choose.

@dotSHINI

tell that the 2s38, vidar , pzh2k and so on. As long as it makes money gajin doesnt mind

An Pigeon:

Exactly my point, imagine the 2s38 was an event vehicle, its Br would be 11.0 by now. the vidar too.
they have skewed stats cause bad players buy them then do bad.

@dotSHINI

that argument is mostly for the anti copy paste specialists.
Answered above

yeah Seen that :D

@dotSHINI

Honestly its not germanys fault we have such a big ground industry, we shouldnt be punished for it.
In the meantime lookat air we are dead in the water

cant fault an industry for existing, think folks get more pissed off by the attitude of some of the german mains on here though.

same as most mains tbf

[MademoiselleSXXI]

Honestly its not germanys fault we have such a big ground industry, we shouldnt be punished for it.

This is true for both sides, too
Whilst selling less individual AFVs than Germany, the industry is large (Granted, it makes money from the smaller systems sold, such as anything Thales makes), but that still leaves the AMX-30C2, a long-requested vehicle, as France’s AMX-30 Super replacement
(Not forgetting 30VE)

[Eila_Deker]

i think the 30S should be added to Germany i mean after all France got the SK105 and DF105 just because French parts got used so same logic maybe give germany the addon armor that was planned to make it stand out

[An_Pigeon]

Germany is getting switzerland.

Theres enough stuff in germany now man ffs let some stuff remain where it should be.

If it was 4/5 years ago yeah sure.

But wouldn’t you rather see actual german stuff added before taking mix n match crap from other trees?

Im sat here waiting for leopard 1a3, a4 as well as the 2av with the 120mm gun, and a myriad of other tanks.

Edit : they only got thw DF105 last patch. Its been a whole 5 years since it was added 😑 or there abouts.

The Sk105 was abritrarily added to Germany cause it’s austrian 🤣 the only reason its under the Argentinian flag is to give it a different name.

It caused chaos when it was introduced because france at that time was a really fresh tree and was empty af, while germany had i think at least 2 lights at the same br that were considered good.

Edit 2 : as @MademoiselleSXXI says, IF they actually added the amx 30VE or C2 then it wouldn’t be as bad for germany to get the 30s.

But generally i believe the C2 could fire the OFL 105 G2 round so maybe end up higher br.

[dotSHINI]

@An Pigeon

let some stuff remain where it should be.

I mean we still are talking about a german vehicle

[An_Pigeon]

It’s not a german vehicle, its a german modified vehicle.

It’s also a prem so moving it could cause more issues for certain people.

It’s a french vehicle, overhauled by the germans, for the french. IT really should stay in france.

Most T series tanks should goto france cause most their optics and electronics come from france?

[Godvana]

@An Pigeon

It’s also a prem so moving it could cause more issues for certain people.

No one is asking for it to move, it should just be in both trees

@An Pigeon

It’s a french vehicle, overhauled by the germans, for the french. IT really should stay in france.

Not modified for the French, France had nothing to do with it. It was an upgrade package offered for countries already operating the AMX-30.

@An Pigeon

Most T series tanks should goto france cause most their optics and electronics come from france?

There is a lot more then optic upgrades in the Super. The entire tank is overhauled.

[dotSHINI]

@An Pigeon

It’s not a german vehicle, its a german modified vehicle.

which never has been in use by france. Thats like saying the Leo 2T1 is not a turkish vehicle, but a turkish modified vehicle.

You are saying any leopard should go germany, any T series to Russia, any F-16/15 and so on to the US

@An Pigeon

It’s also a prem so moving it could cause more issues for certain people.

who says anything about moving? it can be added to germany as well, doesnt need to be france restricted
Its not an event vehicle

@An Pigeon

Most T series tanks should goto france cause most their optics and electronics come from france?

its only that few eletronics, which were planned and installed by russia.

Germany overhauled the AMX 30S, changing multiple parts planned, and developed the upgrade. Its not comparable what you are doing

[An_Pigeon]

@Godvana

There is a lot more then optic upgrades in the Super. The entire tank is overhauled.

No its not, theres an FCS upgrade, transmission and engine.

T series tansk were using a plethora of french electronics inthem before you know what started.

@Godvana

Not modified for the French, France had nothing to do with it. It was an upgrade package offered for countries already operating the AMX-30.

An Pigeon:

It was designed for the french initially thats why when i twas rejected it was shut down xD

[dotSHINI]

@An Pigeon

theres an FCS upgrade, transmission and engine

+engine cooling system, fuelm capacity increase, torsiojn bars, hydraulic schock absorbers, new roadm wheels, new tracks. stabiliser system and new thermal equipment+ available turret armor on request.
publicly displayed, and tested in Saudi Arabia

Ah yes… definitly the same as the few french parts in a T series. you are definitly right.
how can we confuse bought french parts that were planned by russia and isntalled with a major overhaul planned and done by germans