Ammo improvements needed for 9.0+ US Tanks with supporting evidence

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
1

TLDR

105mm DM33 (the round that almost all German tanks have from 8.7 to 9.7) out performs M833 and all current 105mm ammunition that US tanks get up until M900, which only the M1128 and the IPM1 get at 10.0+

Furthermore other nations get 105mm DM63 as early as 9.0 which has even better performance. The US tanks are incredibly hamstrung ammo wise compared to their opposition in matches.

another issue, the US doesn’t even get M774 (an even weaker round) for most of its tanks. It only gets it for the M60A3 TTS at 9.0 and then we don’t see it again until the M1 Abrams at 10.3. (and the AGS if you happened to get it for the event, or the premium M1128.)

Now for the meat and Potatoes

My proposal is this :The following US tanks need to have their ammo buffed to bring them closer to parity with other nations ammo

M60A1 AOS -------------------------(M735) (BR increase to 8.3 needed)

M60A1 RISE (p) -------------------(M774)

M60A3 TTS --------------------------(M833)

XM8 -event tank--------------------(M774 and M833) (remove C76A1) BR increase to 10.0
btw this is the later evolution of the CCVL and it has worse and an older generation ammo than the CCVL…you can see how this is stupid…

AGS -event tank--------------------(M833)

M1128 ---------------------------------(M833) to replace M774

XM1 (GM) -premium tank-----(M774) BR increase to 9.7

XM1 (C) -premium tank--------(M774) BR increase to 9.7

M1 ----------------------------------------(M833)

M1 KVT -Premium tank--------(M833)

The alternative is to give M774 DM33 performance and M833 given DM63 performance and issue them accordingly. Gaijin made up the premium abrams out of thin air after all, so it’s not much of a stretch to make this up as well.

Some other interesting notes to consider:

Germany gets 105mm DM33 for:
Class 3 (p) -8.7
TAM 2IP -8.7
Leopard 1A5 -9.0
M48 Super -9.0
Leopard C2A1 MEXAS -9.0
Radkampfwagen 9.3
TAM 2C -10.0 (this tank gets 105mm DM63 too)
Leopard 2AV -9.7

Additionally lets see what other tanks get DM63 as early as 9.0

UK- Olifant mk 2
China- CM11 (M60 variant
Sweden- Strv 105
Israel- Magach 6C and the Magach 6B Gal (both M60 variants)

More notes:
Japan gets type 93 which is basically DM33 at 8.7+
Russia gets 3BM22 at 9.0 with 425mm of pen
France gets OFL 105 as early as 8.3 which is more similar to M774, but they have the added advantage of earlier thermals and better mobility than any tech tree M60 the US gets

Ammo performance Comparison of 9.0 ammunition
OFL 105 F1- 361mm of pen (france)
M774---------- 372mm of pen (USA)
Type 93--------405mm of pen (Japan)
DM33----------408mm of pen (Germany, Italy)
L23--------------410mm of pen (UK)
3BM22-------- 425mm of pen (Russia)
DM63--------- 430mm of pen (China, UK, Israel, Sweden)

With all that being said, it is confusing and frustrating why the US cant even get M833 until 9.7 UNLESS YOU HAVE A PREMIUM.

How is that even close to being fair?

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That’s just par for the course on how Gaijin ground devs treat US ammo issues. It’s not fair.

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I like all of this except for the br increase. Gaijin is always increasing US tank brs. The M1 Abrams just went up to 10.3 a while ago. It went from having a bad shell to awful because it now stands against even harder vehicles to penetrate

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I agree with most of the proposals except for the M60A1 AOS, it’s already a powerhouse at 8.0 and the BR hike would not improve it. I would also really like the XM-1 to get smoke grenades as well.

Also as a side note you should be comparing the 60° angled pen values as well, they are frankly more relevant than flat pen values for 90% of situations.

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Agreed the angled pens are more important but the average player only ever looks at the best possible pen. So thats what I went with.

The original post I made about this on the old forums was much more detailed showing angled pens of M833 vs DM33 vs DM63, but this new forum is a lot more limited in terms of what we can do with text.

Knowing how little attention gaijin pays to their own forums is also quite discouraging and resulted in me simplifying my argument to what you see here.

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