American M109: Short, Stubby... Supplemental?

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[Would you like to see this in-game?]
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You’re probably asking yourself: “Why?”
I understand. It really makes no sense to have this when America already has the M109A1. To me, however, it’s still an American vehicle missing from the American tree.

History
The M109 was the first production version of the initial T196 SPG design. The T196 design was initially trialed in 1959, and was later upgraded with a diesel engine as the T196E1. This model was trialed in 1960. After two years of testing, the T196E1 was adopted as the M109 in 1962. Production of the type was short-lived, and ended in 1969. The combat history of this vehicle was short-lived as well. While it did see early use in the Vietnam War, even with favorable reports the downfall was deemed the limited range of the M126. While a new charge was developed to increase the range, the T255 (M126) using the XM119 charge, there was unacceptable damage to both the vehicle and crew in a combat environment. In 1971, the type started conversion to the M109A1, which had remedied both the range and charge issues with the much longer M185. By 1983, all M109s were re-gunned to the M185, with newly built models as the M109A1B.

Description
The M109 self-propelled howitzer is a full-tracked, armored combat support, air transportable, diesel-powered with excellent ground mobility. The primary armament includes a 155-mm cannon and M127 mount, with firing accomplished by an M35 firing mechanism which uses cartridge-type primers. (I ripped this straight from one of the TMs)
In-game this is completely identical to that as the one in the Israeli tree, with differences only in operational equipment, camo, and ammunition.

Specifications

Dimensions:
Length - 21 ft 8 in.
Width - 10 ft 4 in.
Height w/ MG - 10 ft 1 in.
Empty Weight - 43,500 lb
Loaded Weight - 52,461 lb

Performance:
Powerplant: 8V71T V-8 Engine with XTG-411-2A Transmission
Gross HP @ 2350 rpm: 405 hp
Maximum Speed (FWD/REV): 35 (governed) / 7 mph
Minimum Speed (FWD): 6 mph
Maximum grade: 60%
Side Slope: 30°
Fording Depth: 42 in.
Maximum Trench: 72 in.
Maximum Vertical Wall: 21 in.
Steer Control: Clutch Brake (1st & 2nd) / Geared Steer (3rd & 4th)

Misc.:
Crew: 6
Armament: 155mm M126A1
Ammunition (Conventional and ER): 28 Rounds Total
Elevation Angles: +1333 mils to -53 mils
Rate of fire: 4 rnds/min (Maximum) / 1 rnd/min (Sustained)
Secondary: M2HB
Ammunition: 500 rnds.

Ammunition

M107
Weight: 95.0 lb
Filler: 14.6 lb TNT / 15.4 lb Comp B (20.48 lb TNTe)
Velocities (m/s):
1G - 207.3
2G - 236.2
3G - 275.8
4G - 317.0
5G - 374.9
3W - 269.7
4W - 313.9
5W - 373.4
6W - 461.8
7W - 562.4

M110
Weight: 96.1 lb
Filler: 15.6 lb WP
Velocities (m/s):
[Same as M107]

M483A1
Weight: 103.5 lb
Filler: 58 g M10 burst charge, 88 HEDP grenades w/ 30.5 g of Comp A5
Grenade penetration: 2.75 in
Velocities (m/s):
1G - 198.4
2G - 222.7
3G - 257.3
4G - 298.4
5G - 354.1
3W - 267.5
4W - 303.9
5W - 362.3
6W - 442.9
7W - 536.6

M549 and M549A1
Weight: 95.0 lb
Filler: 15.0 lb TNT (M549A1) / 16.0 lb Comp B (21.28 lb TNTe) (M549)
Motor Burn Duration: ~7 sec
Velocities (m/s):
7R - 560.8

XM454
Weight: 120.45 lb
Filler: 13.0 kg Pu (72,000 kg TNTe)
Velocities (m/s):
1 - 310.9
2 - 374.9
3 - 550.6

There are many other shells that can be used with the M126A1, and various fuze combinations. However these would either useless in-game or there is simply not enough information for me to use.

Other Images



Sources

TM 9-2350-217-10 (Changes 1 through 8) - M108, M109, M109A1 - 19691213 (19740812)
TM 9-2350-217-10N - M109, M109A1 - 19740925
TM 43-0001-28 - Artillery Ammunition Data Sheets - 20031027
FT 155-AH-3 - M107, M110, M116, M121, M485 - 19740830
FT 155-AK-2 - M483A1 - 19761130
FT 155-AL-1 - M549 - 19771230
FT 155-AJ-2 - XM454 - 19690529
David Doyle - M108/M109 Walk Around - 2010
Various images I found online

9 Likes
2

Agreed. I already am a fan of the Israeli tech tree, but when I saw both versions of the M109 were added to it, that made it all the better for me. (Even though I have yet to research either of them… XD) If there are both in an export country, why not have both in the native country as well? In my opinion, being able to choose between the long- and short-barreled versions of the Paladin is useful, as each fit a different playstyle and map layout. With the long-barreled version having much better ballistics, it is conducive to large maps and sniping, but what good is that in an urban environment, or when you need to make shots directly over an embankment? (Yes, I know. They are artillery pieces that were never designed for direct-fire roles as their primary purpose, but still.) But if you have access to both, you could use them interchangeably, depending on the map, or choose between the two to more closely fit your playstyle.

Besides, the short-barreled version might be especially handy if this suggestion is ever taken up. (Given the distances that would be in use here.)

1 Like
3

You’re probably asking yourself: “Why?”
I understand. It really makes no sense to have this when America already has the M109A1. To me, however, it’s still an American vehicle missing from the American tree.

Aside from being an American vehicle, like you said, that deserves to be in the tree, it would also be a lower BR, sitting at 6.0. There is zero reason why it wasn’t added for the US, and I’m sick of that bullshit where US doesn’t get their own equipment.

3 Likes
4

0.3 br their is no real point to be added now when that dev time can be better spent

5

“dev time can be better spent”…my dude, it’s a copy paste, it takes 5 minutes

1 Like
6

Do you know how to code a vehicle into this game properly not
It would still take dev time and is very low priority

1 Like
7

I know enough to say that this is extremely easy to do, and should have been done the moment M109s came into the game. There is no good reason for the US not to have their own basic M109.

1 Like
8

mate im wait for my planes to have the features they have id rather they work on more important things then giving the US a slightly worse howitzer then they already have

9

Would be a nice SPG Big Guns can solve big problems +1

tumblr_14146446fb7dd58da77026a6645d1676_4a39134f_640

10

+1
Domestically built and used by the US. No reason it should be exclusive to other trees.
I just wish HE damage was reworked again so that howitzer vehicles weren’t so undertiered in general.

1 Like
11

Gib, more boombox to use as an SPAA in my lineup. actually could do with it at this BR…

1 Like
12

It would be one of the easiest vehicles to add to appease the community for an update. It’s already ingame, under the Israeli tree.

1 Like
13

and the German tree as the M109G

1 Like
14

German one is slightly different due to having an MG3, though the Italian one gets a .50cal. I’m not sure if the Italian M109G and the Israeli M109 are different in anyway.

1 Like
15

the italian one is also a 109G but with a M2HB, so the MG is really the only thing different about the German one

2 Likes
16

While this topic has a renewed interest, I’d like to make a quick MFR on the gun this uses and to extrapolate on one of the statements in the main post. This is something I’ve written up a little over 2 years ago and the information (as far as I can tell) still holds up, but I have added a few more details:

The Big Write-up
  1. Guns
  • T255: This is the initial prototype designation of the 155mm cannon used on the T196E1 (M109). It is a derivative of the T186E1, which is a modified version of the M114 used on the M44 SPH. Note similarities between the T255 and the T258.
  • T255E3 - This is the model that would be standardized as the M126.
  • T255E4 - This designation appears in various publications, but I have not seen it used in any official document.
  • M126: The main armament of the M109, it proved much more satisfactory than the 105mm used on the M108. However, range was still subpar and needed improvement.
  • M126E1 - Some time during the 1960s (earliest mention I have is 1969), a modified version of the M126 was produced. The only change was an improved barrel life from 5000 rounds to 7500 rounds. This would enter production and see use in other militaries as well (such as Belgium).
  • M126A1 - Around 1974, the M126E1 was standardized as the M126A1.
  • M185: A much longer barreled 155mm used on the M109A1/M109A1B as a way to improve reliability and range over the M126.
  1. Charges
  • M3 Charge (Green Bag): These are lower-power charges used in the 155mm weapons. It is important to note that these were not allowed for use in the German-type guns (as per Italian manuals). These are numbered 1G to 5G.
  • M4 Charge (White Bag): These are higher-power charges used in the 155mm weapons. It is important to note that these were the strongest allowed for use in the M126. These are numbered 3W to 7W.
  • M119 (XM119, M119A1 (8), M119A2 (7R) / Super-propelling charge): This charge was designed as a way to increase the range of the M126. Initial testing proved satisfactory, though combat use proved it to be unsuitable for the vehicle and crew. Use was allowed for the M185, though RoF was limited. It was also allowed for use in German-type guns.

When Germany first received the M109, they were unmodified vehicles directly from US Army stock. Specific details on these vehicles are unknown, but they were received in two batches, in 1964-1965 and 1972-1973. Initial vehicles were designated M 109. Following the American trials of the M119 charge and change to the M185 gun, Germany set out to modify their vehicles to accept sustained use of the M119 charge. This is very important, as although the M126 was fully capable of using it, the weapon needed modifications to allow sustained fire on the level of the M185. Tasked with this change was Rheinmetall. The resulting weapon, designated either DM1 or DM2, introduced as new breech that not only allowed the use of the M119 charge, but also allowed an increase RoF for standard M4 charges, from 4 to 6 rpm.

The Italian side of things are a lot more convoluted. Initially, these vehicles were acquired in a similar fashion to that of the German vehicles. However, they were purchased from the United States without armament. This allowed OTO-Melara to re-arm them how the Italian Army saw fit. Unfortunately, the specifics here are greatly limited due to the fact that I do not have first-hand access to any Italian documents. All information is from both snippets of documents and educated guesses, so do not take the following as hard evidence. The initial Italian M109s were rearmed to license built standard American-type weaponry, designated simply as OTO-Melara 155/23. However, Italy also received M109Gs from Germany and these too were re-armed. Unlike the M109s, however, these used license built German-type weaponry, and these were, unusually, designated M126E1. Whether or not this was to avoid confusion with existing US weaponry or to standardize it with the rest of Europe, these cannons were more or less identical to the German ones.

To conclude on all evidence available to me, I will break down the preceding text into key points:

  1. The American weaponry was designated M126, M126E1, and M126A1. The German weaponry as modified by Rheinmetall was designated DM1 or DM2 (Specifically, “Haubitze, 155 mm, ROVH 155 - DM1” or “Haubitze, 155 mm, ROVH 155 - DM2”). The Italian weaponry, depending on how Italian you feel, was built by OTO-Melara as either the 155/23 or M126E1.
  2. All weapons had the ability to use the M119 charge. The American M126 weapons were the only ones that were officially excluded from its use. The M185 was rate limited to 1 round every minute for 1 hour, then 1 round ever 3 minutes afterwards. The rate limit for German weaponry is unknown. The rate limit for other foreign operators and their variants is also unknown.
  3. While the M119 did increase the M107 range from the M126 from 14,800 meters to 18,400 meters, it was not the ultimate range increase. By 1977, M549 and M549A1 HERA shells with use of 7R charges were adopted for use in the 155mm guns, and had a maximum range of about 19,500 meters. On top of this, these shells were not rate-limited.

As a bonus, I will also quickly dispel the Thyssen L/23 name. First of all, Thyssen had no part in the designing of the modified weapon, as it was entirely contracted with Rheinmetall. Second of all, there is not a single mention of Thyssen in any available publication as far as I am aware. The only source for the name I could find is from Global Security.

As another, new bonus, by 1990 the M109A1 and M109A1B were the only M185-armed vehicles of the family that could not use the 8 charge when firing M712 Copperheads. Not only that, but the 7W charge was restricted to combat emergency use only. The M109A2, M109A3, and M109A3B did not have these restrictions.

Bibliography:
TM 9-2350-217-10N - M109 and M109A1 - 1974
FT 155-AH-3 - M126/M126A1 Firing M107/M110/M116/M116B1/M110/M121A1/M121A1/M485A2/M485A1 - 1974
FT 155-AK-2 - M126/M126A1 Firing M483A1 - 1976
FT 155-AJ-2 - M126/M126E1 Firing XM454 - 1969
FT 155-AL-1 - M126/M126A1 Firing M549/M549A1 - 1977
FT 155-AS-1 - M185 Firing M712 Copperhead - 1990
TM 9-2350-217-20P - T195E1 and T196E1 - 1962
TM 9-2350-217-10 - M108, M109, and M109A1 - 1969
TDv 2350/013-24 - 1969
Tankograd 5026 - Panzerhaubitzen Der Bundeswehr M7-M52-M44-M55-M109
David Doyle - M108/M109 Walk Around - 2010
Rheinmetall - Waffentechnisches Taschenbuch - 1977
ARLCD-SP-79003 - 1979
DTIC AD0423683 - 1963
DTIC AD0869437 - 1964

Also, as an addendum to the previous write-up, both myself and one of my friends have written up bug reports pertaining to this with no result.

2 Likes
17

;-) your welcome

I like to sometimes go to the bottom and mix things up what’s old is new again.

1 Like