but its the same thing?
it is the ability to to turn, which in game is under preforming significantly
in game they cant pull enough to hit the maneuvering targets they did in testing which doesnt show an energy conservation problem, it shows a maneuverability issue
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/FTINp3ILB1Ls
If youre talking about this one
it’s energy conservation against maneuvering targets, not pull.
They are subpar.
| Rating | Missiles |
|---|---|
| Amazing | MICA |
| Very good | R-77-1 |
| Good | PL-12, AAM-4 |
| OK | AIM-120A/B, Derby/R-Darter, R-77 |
| Mediocre | AIM-120C-5 |
| Rating | Missiles |
|---|---|
| Amazing | MICA |
| Very good | R-77-1, R-77 |
| Good | PL-12, Derby/R-Darter |
| OK | AAM-4 |
| Mediocre | AIM-120A/B |
| Bad | AIM-120C-5 |
| Rating | Missiles |
|---|---|
| Amazing | AIM-120C-5, R-77-1 |
| Very good | AAM-4, AIM-120A/B |
| Good | PL-12 |
| OK | Derby/R-Darter, R-77 |
| Mediocre | MICA* |
*Mica is very fast initially, but at long range, it bleeds a lot of speed when maneuvering
If the mica didn’t have the best seeker (only one with a different seeker), the R-77-1 would be the best overall, because not only does it perform very well in HOBS, but also in range.
This is the difference at 60km launch, going mach and the neemy also doing mach
People can notch at 5km if they know what they are doing, but there is no need to nocth since the AIM-120C wont pull in, ever.
some chinese professor stated the amraam is a 38G missile i dont have the exact details i just remember seeing a file on the forum
Another beautiful TIGER_TANK_1 post, thank you for your outstanding contribution to this forum
Something that those graphs don’t show very well is the energy that each missile has at long range and their capability to turn at those low states of energy.
The AIM-120C-5 will retain speed better and the difference might be enough to hit someone that does light maneuvering, where the AIM-120A wouldn’t pull enough.
Early match at altitude, I try to judge the speed of the incoming missiles and sometimes I don’t even bother to go cold or notch because I see that their approach is slow in my RWR. Instead I do light manouvers like a smooth high speed roll and the incoming missiles won’t catch up and eventually lag behind. The AIM-120C-5 would be one of those missiles that might surprise me if I underestimate the situation.
Other than that, they suck.
Has to be ragebait
Derby and darter maybe, but r-77 no. I love it but I’d rather have an aim120a it’s just a bit finicky past 10km. Although sub 10 it’s better.
I will However grant that it’s likely that 2 equally skilled players the r-77 equipped one will likely win as inevitably the 1v1 will push towards closer and closer until the aim120 just cannot pull
Targets under 20km is 99% of the game. That is our point. ARB hasnt been bvr meta since people figured out how easy to defeat fox 3s are
I specified that it was better for the close range shots that are the current meta and have a reasonable chance of killing
You’re asking a bit much, you don’t need that precise of data to model the missile in a decently accurate way. Info on how many GS amraams can pull I’ve seen as low as 32gs and as high as 40, 35 is the most common figure and gaijin chose that. The amraam cannot pull 35gs for the vast majority of it’s flight time, this is not something that happens with any other fox 3, this didn’t use to be the case and gaining did not release what they based themselves on when they nerfed them. This is Couple with the realistic guidance delay makes for a pretty bad missile for wvr combat in-game. This is supported by the abnormally low fin aoa datamined.
This isn’t a case of there being sources showing the amraam has subpart close range perfomance and players trying to buff it off assumptions, there is no accurate data on the breakpoints of the aim120a close range capability, however there are decent figures on it’s rough perfomance which gaining used to give it 35g max pull, and that’s how it used to be until they nerfed it, proportions aren’t much different from pl12, pl12 is a slightly larger missile(178mm/203mm) fins should be decently wider and longer although going by pictures no more than 200/210 mm in terms of span difference. Larger body + larger fins ofc means more lift but the difference between the two is absolutely massive off the rails beyond what realistically makes sense
You shouldn’t need to rely on your RWR to dodge/decoy them. They’re large, headon only missiles that burn for a very long time and can be outpulled.
Also, it’s known that the Fakour and Phoenix seekers being very weak has 1 benefit. Farming players that turn down their RWR sensitivity for some reason.
They’re a major nation missile and their overall capability rates them only above the R-Darter, Derby, and maybe the R-77 in terms of AirRB performance. And even those outperform them in HOB performance… The A/B/C-5 being the single worst HOB ARH missiles (besides the bomber killers) makes them objectively mid.
I know you kinda went over this, but I’d still put the R-77-1 as the best Overall ARH missile. Great Range AND great performance rivaling the MICA in HOBs shots? Toptier imo.
MICA has the advantage of also being the hardest to notch
We must have different definitions of mid then, and I will leave this discussion at that. I will also not contest that the MICA or R-77-1 are better.
Why is that?
It has a better seeker that gives it a small notch gate. No other missile has this.
I do want the Aim-120Cs to be buffed both seeker and performance wise, similar to how they were on the dev server.
Really? Last time I checked all fox 3 other than Phenoix had same seeker
That was true, but they changed the MICAs seeker at some point.
Untill they buffed it
