F-16I is in a dire need of a something to make it competitive at the BR and state it is in right now.
- Add I-DERBY-ER to the F-16I SUFA
- Let it be added at a later date
- No
It would also be a good opportunity to test out dual pulse on aircraft as opposed to AA which won’t give good testing results, imo.
In the past there have been instances of advanced and unique weaponry being tested out on specific vehicles, such as the aim 54 on f-14’s, r73’s on su 25BM, all aspect missiles on mig 27/23 etc.
I think the F-16I should get the opportunity to test dual pulse air to air missiles.
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Bug report for the 16D missing the Derby ER Community Bug Reporting System
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F-16I Block 52+ Sufa never tested or used any Derby Variants, it can’t get them ingame because of this unless gaijin does some shenanigans. Only the Block 30 Barak Is loaned to Rafael as testbeds did. Gaijin has however given the Derby to the Block 40 Barak IIs, so those should be able to get it as well.
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There’s precedent for gaijin doing alot more wack things, aim 7f on K2K. I don’t think abit of inaccuracy for a more balanced tree would harm anyone. It is a game after all
Not a good comparison when it isn’t there anymore
Maybe it can be removed once sufa gets access to more competitive missiles p4 etc, similar precedent
I think dropping it to 13.7 is the best and only real option. A better missile would at best leave it at 14.0, at worst move it up further and it doesnt have an AESA radar which imo, makes either option not ideal.
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Funny thing is the I-Derby ER likely wouldn’t be a better missile lol. It’d be worse at close range than the regular Derby, better at longer ranges than the regular Derby, but still worse than the Aim-120 at range.
Not really, the Derby ER should have double the range of the Derby and since it can fire both its stages separately, it would mean that it could engage the second stage after the missile has turned towards the target, increasing lethality instead of wasting energy during the turn
The big thing is reduction in time to target depending on the situation. Overall it has the same amount of propellant, it firing separately can be an improvement in most situations, but the AMRAAM series should still have more range regardless
It also means it enters this engagement with less energy to begin with. It would have more energy overall, but there are reductions to be made in regards to achieving this. The big thing I want to know is how gaijin will model the triggering of the second stage
Same amount of propellant != same thrust
Different propellants have different efficiency and produce different amounts of thrust
Also
From the SPYDER, Derby ER gets 2x the range of the Derby SR
5 seconds before impact or when the missile reaches under 340m/s
And I doubt Rafael managed to double propellant effectiveness.
I mean the ER did get heavier… And considering how much newer it is I’d assume the electronics also got lighter which means it also got even more propellant
So the F-16I uses AIM-120C something or D IRL
How much is actual question for which you likely won’t find info without entering sekrit dokuments territory.
Gaijin already assumed those 4kg extra translated to 3.75kg of propellant more. You might get more out of the missile by convincing Gaijin to reduce air drag, after all AMRAAMs are one of the best long range missiles despite one of the weaker motors for their weight.
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Funnily enough, it only has ~5% more thrust in game
Dual pulse motors aren’t about increasing thrust, just applying second kick when it should help.
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Yes but
ER empty weight is currently 75kg with 47kg of propellant, however SR has an empty weight of 74.75kg with 42kg of propellant… Yet the ER only has 5% more thrust despite having ~10% more propellant, which I assume is also far more efficient than the one on the SR
Also there’s no actual info that the ER’s empty weight isn’t actually less than the SR
Also, if it has the same propellant effectiveness, how would it reach 2x the range from a static ground launch?
Total thrust of ER is about 10% extra though?
Derpy ER:
first pulse thrust: 18800N
first pulse burn: 4s
second pulse thrust: 17625N
second pulse burn: 2s
18800*4+17625*2=110450
110450 divided by 47(kg of propellant) gives us exactly 2350N/kg
Regular Derpy has 101661,2N, divided by 43,25 results in 2350,55N/kg rounded
110450/101661=1,086, or 8,6% more thrust, while propellant (47/43,25) mass increases by the same 8.6% unless you go really deep into thousandths for accuracy.
Now, I have absolute suck all of missile/propellant knowledge, so asked some AIs and while “N/kg” isn’t valid unit, but “N*s/kg” is bit more usable. And known air to air missile propellants supposedly land around 2400N*s/kg mark, without entering powdered unicorns territory. So trying so squeeze more juice out of that hebrew lemon might be about as difficult, as from WPU-16B motors used in C5 onwards AMRAAMs - ie it won’t happen.
I see forum formatting doesn’t like * used out of context. Solved it?
