That’s just silly. These aircraft would be overtiered at 12.3 with their current missiles. The only way they’d be playable at that battle rating is with the addition of AIM-9Ms and AIM-7Ms. Without those, they’d be completely outclassed, even at their own battle rating (12.3).
The F-4S probably could, yeah, as it’s just a direct upgrade over the J. Personally I’d prefer 9Ls and 12.3 for that. Though honestly having the F-4S be a premium instead of like the F-4N is just a big mistake since it’s the best naval Phantom.
there is no reason, they fit better with their current ordinance for BR and since you only get one in techtree there isn’t a reason to split it. And non “historical capability” means nothing if the aircraft fits its role in BR
Place where i would do it is british phantoms since they are exactly replaceable, just give one of them 9L at random
I already explained why these changes should be implemented, and I also made a solid case for why only the F-4J should receive them. Right now, it’s objectively worse than the F-4S, and these changes would make the miserable stock grind far more bearable.
I’m not opposed to both aircraft receiving AIM-9Ls, but the days of relying on rear-aspect missiles at 12.0 are long gone. They’re outdated. The Phantoms need quality-of-life improvements across the board if they’re going to remain competitive against what they’re facing today.
Gaijin isn’t going to implement changes just because people ask for them. They need historical documentation or well-researched reports pointing them in the right direction, like this: Community Bug Reporting System Without that, suggestions usually get rejected regardless of how much supporting evidence or community backing they have.
Giving these Phantoms two AIM-9Ls would be a modest quality-of-life improvement, just like adding the correct countermeasures and drop tanks. And, by the way, you can’t equip both the drop tanks and the countermeasures at the same time because they use the same wing hardpoints.
I even suggested limiting them to two AIM-9Ls instead of four. Besides, the AIM-9L isn’t an R-73, so there’s no reason to act like this would suddenly make the aircraft overpowered.
Stop hiding behind the usual, “Well… if this gets added, uhhh, it’ll have to move up because, ummm, that’s what Gaijin did to some other overtiered aircraft.” That’s not a real argument because it’s just repeating past balancing mistakes instead of judging the aircraft on its own merits.
Don’t really think AIM-9Ms/7M are needed at all unless the jet goes up .7 or even 1.0.
Okay, now you’ve just lost the plot
Did I? Bumping them up to 12.3 does not need a AIM-7M or 9M. Thats a bit overkill.
The missiles would be doing all the heavy lifting because the airframe would be outdated. The aircraft would have to fight Su-30s, F-2s, and other jets that would absolutely curbstomp it with Fox-3 missile spam.
I’m fine with it staying at 12.0 with the AIM-9L loadout I mentioned, as long as the other neglected jets around the same battle rating get the attention they deserve as well.
If it got the AIM-9L it would have to go up in BR, staying at 12.0 with it is just too much and as I’ve said before I really don’t think going up by .03 in its current state would be a bad thing. It’s already one of the most dominate jets at the BR and iirc it has a positive win and KD which is crazy for a premium jet in one of the most popular nations at a BR that can be tricky for new players says a lot about it.
That may have been true when it was released a couple of years ago, but the game has changed completely since then. You’re talking about the F-4S, and I didn’t really want it to receive AIM-9Ls because the addition of the extra countermeasures already makes it a pretty capable jet, and it completely overshadows the F-4J.
I do have an issue with the full missile load, which is why I suggested giving the F-4J only two AIM-9Ls. The F-4J has a horrible stock grind and doesn’t perform nearly as well as the F-4S. Giving it two AIM-9Ls would help it compete in a rapidly changing environment that’s increasingly dominated by stronger premium aircraft.
As time goes on, you’ll see fewer F-4 Phantoms and more F/A-18s because of the sales, which means even more uptiers. Those two AIM-9Ls would give the F-4J a fighting chance and make the stock grind far more bearable without pushing the aircraft into being overpowered.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
The solution isn’t to make everything fighting the F-4S suffer it’s to decompress the BRs. Why do you want the make the situation at 11.0 and the surrounding BRs even more unbearable.
For the love of God, please stop and actually read what I’m saying instead of arguing against a straw man. I said the F-4J, not the F-4S. Are you intentionally being this dense? I’m asking for two AIM-9Ls on the F-4J, not four. Holy moly. At this point, I can practically hear your knuckles dragging across the floor.
Sorry, I read the words you posted then replied to them instead of insulting you.
Neither should get a buff as they are still better then what they fight.
Don’t lie to yourself, you haven’t read any of my points. And while we’re at it, the countermeasures bug report was accepted.
You also kept bringing up the F-4S, even though I never said it should get AIM-9Ls in the first place. My suggestion was for the F-4J, not the F-4S. The F-4J is already overshadowed because the F-4S has better flight performance, and you don’t have to suffer through a miserable stock grind with it. Giving the F-4J two AIM-9Ls would actually give players a reason to grind and play the aircraft instead of ignoring it.
as much freedom brining 2x AIM-9Ls would bring to the F-4J, down the road this very same topic would come up as something like “why doesn’t the F-4J get 4xAIM-9L”, now as is with the current BR system in place the F-4J wouldn’t need to go up in BR as then it would be the same or more similar BR to the F-15As while having all around lesser equipment outside of HMSs, so i don’t see a reason on limiting the amount of 9Ls it could bring, as even those missiles can be hit or miss sometimes with how they often decide to go after teammates instead of hostiles with how flare hungry they can get
Why? F4 vs su30 is fair in your eyes? Any competent mig23 can kill an f4j
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Two is just the beginning. Once people see that giving it only two Sidewinders doesn’t have a huge impact, they’ll probably start introducing four later on.
At the end of the day, you’ll still be able to carry five Fox 1 missiles. Hopefully, these changes will come alongside adjustments to other aircraft so everything stays on a level playing field.
The only thing left to do would be moving the Kurnass 2000 and the EJ Kai down to 12.0, and it would feel a lot like playing old top tier again.
You also wouldn’t have to worry as much about downtiers, since more and more 11.0 aircraft are being equipped with all aspect missiles.
honestly, i think ive only used the 5xAIM-7s and 2xAIM-9s like once on the J, and never on the S, as with sparrows if you can’t really get your nose around and get a decent lead for when they go active then there isn’t really a reason to carry them to me, so i always use the 4xAIM-7 4xAIM-9s although i haven’t flown any of the Js/Ss, as the C is my favorite to fly
The c is completely different to the other phantoms especially the S and J
They need to fix a lot of the phantoms in the game