Accurately modelling the performance metrics of the PL-12/SD-10A BVR missile to narrow the gap to the AIM-120C-5 - Compiling data

The PL-12 is an active-radar, beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile that is part of the arsenal of fighters in the Chinese tech tree, specifically the J-8F, J-10A, and J-11B. The export variant of the PL-12, the SD-10A, is found on the JF-17. The PL-12 currently modelled in the game, in comparison with other ARH missiles in the same class, is a jack of all trades, master of none. In terms of outright range, the R-77-1 and AIM-120A/B variants are superior to the PL-12, but the PL-12 still can hold its own, especially as the PL-12 performs better at closer ranges than the AIM-120A/Bs. In the upcoming update, however, some changes to the battlefield environment may render the current PL-12 not enough, especially as China will not be receiving a 14.0 fighter as of this update, and the earliest one can come is the update after Leviathans.

Recently, new evidence has come to light (courtesy of player @Yamahagi ) that details sources that may help Gaijin model the performance of the PL-12 more accurately. If changes do occur, the PL-12 and SD-10A will receive a notable increase in range and narrow the gap with the upcoming AIM-120C-5 that will be implemented on the F-15E and rumoured for the Eurofighter. When AIM-120C-5 is finally modelled correctly, it will outperform the AIM-120A/B in both BVR and WVR performance.

One confusing aspect that needs to be addressed before I continue is that SD-10 is actually not the PL-12. The SD-10 shares the same aerodynamic configuration as the PL-12, but it is shorter in length than the PL-12. The SD-10 is 3.85 meters long, while the PL-12 is 3.9 meters long. The PL-12 weighs 200kg, whereas the SD-10 weighs only 180kg. The difference in weight will affect the acceleration (but the PL-12 with more fuel will negate that), and also the resulting inertia will be greater once the motor burns out in the PL-12’s case, as well as ever so slightly lower drag from the length increase.

The SD-10 was developed before the PL-12 and has less performance in terms of range. The SD-10A is actually the PL-12 and shares the same characteristics as it.

“Authoritative Report on China’s Most Advanced Active Radar Air-to-Air Missile - Interview with SD-10 Deputy Chief Designer Liang Xiaogeng” [J]. Ordnance Industry Science Technology, 2004(5):17-23.

SD-10 measures 3.85m in length, 0.203m in diameter, 0.674m wingspan, with total weight of 180kg. Operational altitude 0-25km, maximum speed ~Mach 4 (achieving 38G maximum usable overload at Mach 4/6,000m altitude). At 10km altitude with 1.2 Mach head-on engagement, maximum launch distance reaches 70km (this is the shared criteria used by China for evaluating the range performance of all BVR missiles)

In addition, the source cites Chief Designer Liang Xiaogeng stating that the improvement of the SD-10 (which is SD-10A, still in development when this interview was conducted) reaches ~100km launch range under the same conditions. Chief Designer Liang Xiaogeng also said that the Delta V of the SD-10 is over Mach 3 (which is 1020 m/s).
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With this information in mind, we can look at the current implementation of the PL-12. The speed we will be using is True Airspeed, or TAS. And by converting Mach 1.2 to TAS we get approximately 1293 km/h (which is the speed in the criteria and this will be both for the missile carrier and the target.)

Thrust

Mass

Mach Number

Courtesy of statshark, we can see that the total burn time of the PL-12’s motor is 7.5 seconds, the more powerful initial burn of 35KN of thrust lasts for 2.5 seconds while the less powerful 12.9KN of thrust lasts for 5 seconds. This would mean a total engine impulse of 152KN.

But most importantly, we can calculate the Delta V from the maximum mach number that the PL-12 reaches in flight, at an altitude of 10,000 meters launched at a head-on target (both aircraft are flying at mach 1.2), and ingame the PL-12’s maximum speed is approximately Mach 3.87.

Through math, we can calculate the total Delta V (3.87 - 1.2 = 2.67 which is equal to 915.81 meters per second.)

So we can see that the Delta V of the PL-12/SD-10A in War Thunder is worse than the real life Delta V of the SD-10 which is a earlier development before the PL-12/SD-10A, and does not even reach the real life maximum speed of over Mach 4. Liang Xiaogeng’s statement would mean the SD-10 will hit a maximum speed of Mach 4.2 (Mach 1.2 + over Mach 3 Delta V). At the very least, The Delta V should be comparable and not be worse, and to the point that there is over a 100 meter per second difference in favor of the predecessor. The PL-12 should also have more space for fuel given the increase in missile length, and also 20kg difference in weight for fuel allocation, leading to a higher total impulse than the SD-10 and have less drag than it. And these factors combined help the PL-12 achieve a ~30km increase in range.

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We can see a table of the PL-12’s weight distribution in “Air-To-Air Missile Conceptual Design,” written by by Fan Huitao, who is the second chief designer of the PL-12.

In War Thunder the PL-12 and SD-10A is modelled as 198kg full, 132kg empty (Yamahagi says it should be approximately 128kg when empty.) To implement the PL-12’s actual range, the total engine impulse should exceed 160KN (currently 152KN) which would allow for a Delta V that is comparable to that of the real-life SD-10 (over mach 3, which is 1020 m/s). And based on the parameters of achieving approximately 100km range under launch conditions of 10,000m altitude in a 1.2 Mach head-on engagement, adjust the guidance duration of the PL-12, and in the end, the range will be accurate to the real-life counterpart.

The PL-12 is important as it will be the only ARH BVR missile China would field before it has access to the PL-15 and PL-15E. Gaijin can add the PL-12A and keep the PL-12 in its current state, but there is even less information on the PL-12A other than it has a launch range of ~120km and a total weight of 214kg, so it would be ironically easier for Gaijin to follow up with the information provided above and buff the PL-12, as the sources are much more authoritative. PL-15 will not be coming anytime soon, and the introduction of AIM-120C-5 on 14.0 fighters puts top tier Chinese air in an awkward position because of it.

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well good news for you they don’t need to do any of this cause the gap between the missiles is already pretty narrow

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Not necessarily, the current AIM-120C-5 we see in the dev server right now is very likely not finished, and we’ve seen the performance metrics being adjusted recently. But even right now it is already better than the AIM-120A/B. And it should have even more range than it has now.

Currently the PL-12 ingame has comparable range to the AAM-4 (slightly worse), and R-77-1 and the AIM-120s have more range. The R-77s, MICA, and AAM-4 have better pull at close ranges compared to the PL-12. I would not say the gap between the missiles is narrow, the range difference between a base R-77 or Darter compared to a AIM-120 is huge. The MICA can outturn the R-73 while the AIM-120A/B isn’t close to doing that.

More importantly as I’ve said, PL-12 is all China can get before the PL-15. PL-15 is comparable to the Meteor, so it will not come to the game for a long time. So China is left in a very awkward spot if the PL-12 is not fixed. Or Gaijin can add PL-12A (where there is little-to-no information on it.)

So this post can be considered a long-term solution as well.

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I would usually agree, but gaijin is increasing that gap by giving the Hornets, the F-15E/I 120C-5s, and the EFTs are inconsideration to get them too.

It’s only fair that alll nations get equivalent missiles at the same time.

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well thats kinda the problem as it is now its less than 10% better at range with no real benefit to closer ranges so asking for huge buffs to other missles when this 1 isn’t that much of a buff itself is kinda pointless, plus the gap between the AAM4, aim120 and Pl12 is so small that any shot you could hit with an aim120 you can hit with the others, only in war thunder can a missile have 2-5% more range while being worse at literally every thing else and still have people treat it like the most broken thing in the universe.

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the problem is people are asking for missiles that are more than 20+% better than their current missile when that’s not what the aim120c5 is currently, not even close.

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But how do you know that AIM-120C-5 will not be changed again?
These changes I highlighted above would not make the PL-12 on par with the AIM-120C-5. Most sources place the PL-12’s range as being in-between AIM-120B and AIM-120C-4.

And you’re also forgetting the launch platform. A Eurofighter and a F-15E climbs much faster than a J-10A or J-11B, and accelerates faster as well. They would be at an advantage simply because they’ll be at a higher speed and higher altitude when they launch their missiles.

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Cause the last change kept the range the same, if they intended to increase the thrust they would have done so already, same with the r77-1 when people though it was gonna change a bunch but didnt. what we see on the dev server is usual what the devs intend to implement.

the same range gap would exist even if they were using the same missile as you, you would still need to go evasive first and make up for that by having a plane thats better for closer range fights, also the devs said the Eurofighter isnt getting the missile

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I personally would not jump to conclusions yet regarding the state of AIM-120C-5 before it drops to the live server. As for the Eurofighter it’s currently being considered, there’s no outright denial yet.

I don’t get why an accurate PL-12 would be a problem?
Then what will China use when other nations get better BVR missiles in the future? Still a nerfed PL-12?

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Honestly i see your point, i generally think the C-5 is getting hype well beyond what it actually adds to the game, but there no harm in a slightly better pl12 as well

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I myself advocate for all nations to get good BVR missiles on par with each other, though for this post I am focusing on the PL-12.

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I can see that you bring your facts and evidence, but respectfully, it’s unlikely that any of this will be implemented and used in-game. Even if it were, the effect would be close to none.

Your sources say 70 km, but in War Thunder, the PL-12 can scarcely reach 30 km (in perfect conditions) before it starts wobbling, oscillating in its angle of attack, and falling out of the air. In War Thunder, PL-12 is only usable in short-range attacks, BVR is impossible with it. It’s less of a problem of “incorrect parameters” and more of a “ridiculously terrible implementation”; this has been the case for years. Even AIM-120A is better, for reasons unknown other than appeasing the Snail’s coffers.

That said, I appreciate and support your well-written performance description, and hope there is change to come.

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But, you can launch at say, 35km and have good chance to hit someone who is doing a bad notch, for me that might be 25, now I am essentially wasting my rounds firing at 30+ km, but I have to do it since otherwise they don’t have to go evasive at all. However at that point, they have advantage on you anyway and ur chance is next to 0 since they also re-accelerates faster after notch.

R-77-1 did change a bunch. Not so much in changing the meta but definitely a different thing for NATO jets to consider.

I hope it will be corrected after all eurofighter will also get aim120 c5

Can you copy paste all of that into a bug report

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It is true. PL12 when put to test in average conditions can not reach a 30km kill at all. At that range a simple turn will defeat it. Unless u are flying absolutely head on with the missile.

yes with loft it can go further but a reminder that u are not really launching at the same speed as the testing jets, and most people to try to get it that far even in tests go at least mach 1.5. I have tried. 70km is definitely not possible at Mach 1.2 at 10k alt.

Do you think max range conditions have a manoeuvring target

Except that’s not what he said in the slightest.

He said under perfect conditions the missile would fail to reach 30km. This is patently false, and full of cope.

At 30km? So the same as every other missile in the game fired at a target with half a brain? Cool. You’re not helping your case.

J-11B is in-game now, you can stop coping about weak engine power.

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I can’t do it… Has only got 60km radar. Also still 20% slower than F15E or EF or Rafale.

AMRAAM, which does not wobble as much as the PL12 or MICA, can hit targets beyond 30km, PL12 can’t. Mostly because it is slower platform in battles. Still worse.

At least i hope there is no argument that PL12 is realistic in game.

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