The Ta 152C3 is the only German piston aircraft in the 6.0 (SB) despite being the highest level piston aircraft, its performance leaves something to be desired, its flight model portrays it as a very heavy aircraft, while its weight is similar to the Ta 152H1, as the game itself knows, 5.3 tons for the C3 and 5.2 for the H1, these are their weights with all tanks full, which was the mode for long missions, with the wing fuel tanks full, for the normal takeoff mode only the main fuselage tanks were full, which takes about 368kg off this total weight, which is what these full wing tanks weigh, according to the book Dietmar Harmann
both have a similar flight range too
both have the same fuel capacity, adding the capacity of all tanks, it is 1,065 liters. The H1 had a range of 2,000 km, as shown in the range of the table (which is the last column) the range of the H1 is 3.3 and the C3 is 3.2, this means that both carry a lot of weight in fuel, which will be spent making them lighter.
the maximum weight of the C3 is less than the combat weight of the F4U Cosair and the P47D
12,500lb=5,670kg, 10,700lb=4,853kg the empty P47 has the same normal takeoff weight as the H1 and almost the same normal takeoff weight as the C3, even so the P47 D28 in the game has a turn rate of 23.00 seconds, it doesn’t make sense. this image is in the P47 pilots manual, which can be found in PDF on Google
these are the weights of the Corsair, removing the 900lb external tank, the weight is 12,697lb=5,759kg, this image is in the United States Navy.mil PDF. (this is the weight of the F4U-4, the 4b version that swaps the .50 for the 20mm M3 cannons, adds another 77kg, counting the weight of the armament and ammunition, totaling 5,836kg)
Japanese ace Minoru Honda rated the Hellcat and P51 above the Corsair, saying so in an interview on YouTube, British pilot Eric Brown rated the Corsair’s maneuverability as mediocre for aerial combat: Source: (Duels in the Sky: World War II Naval Aircraft in Combat)
Japanese ace Takeo Tanimizu said: I think the F6F was the toughest opponent we had. They could maneuver and roll, whereas planes like the P-38 and F4U could do hit-and-run; they weren’t very maneuverable. It was hard to make American planes catch fire in the air… the only time you could really shoot [a Corsair] down was when it was running away. You had to shoot it from a certain angle, otherwise the bullets would bounce off. I saw F4Us making low-altitude dive attacks and diving into a coconut grove or into the water because they couldn’t get out - the plane was too heavy." (Source: Imperial Japanese Navy Aces 1937-45 by Henry Sakaida, chap. 6)
Now he asks why the Ta 152C3, which at its maximum takeoff weight weighs less than the normal weight of these two fighters, behaves as if it weighed more, especially the Corsair, which has a flight model that does not represent its real weight, nor even its stall tendency, due to the size of the propeller and the engine torque. There is even a warning in the Corsair pilots’ manual, for inexperienced pilots not to do loops and immelmans below 280 knots (519 km/h).
but in the game (at least for me) I don’t feel this instability, on the contrary, I find it an easy plane to play.
Now I asked Manus AI to do a simulation of maneuverability performance between the H1 and the C3, taking into account the data that H1 has, and the result was this
I asked to make a comparison with both weighing 4,950 kg, taking into account the wing area of each one, and the engine power of each one, as you can see the performances are close, which makes the representation of the H1 being so superior to the C3 in the game, be somewhat wrong. once again I reaffirm the similarity between both, because at the end of the day, they are the same planes with different configurations.
Now here is more important information, the German ace Willi Reschke (probably the most famous ace of the Ta 152) gave a statement about a combat he had with a Tempest at 150 feet altitude, where he said that he and the Tempest pilot knew it was a fight to the end, and that they used all tactics to gain an advantage, Willi said that he made extremely aggressive turns, and that at no time did he feel that his machine had reached its limit, until the moment he closed the Tempest in a turn and approaching the Tempest saw that it was about to turn to the other side, a sign that he could not tighten the turn any further, Willi fired a burst that hit the rear fuselage and the tail of the Tempest, the Tempest pilot reacted by turning to the right, Willi saw that the Tempest had no escape and pulled the trigger again, but his cannons had jammed, Willi was enraged, but continued to pursue the Tempest as if it could still shoot it down, until eventually the Tempest stalled (probably from the damage from the first gust) and crashed into the ground, spinning to the left; the Tempest pilot did not survive the impact. Reading other information about this case, I read that curiously, Willi did not claim this case as another victory for his account, but the most interesting thing about all this is that the Tempest was supposed to be superior to the Ta 152H1, especially at low altitudes, where the Tempest was designed to fight, and the H1 for high altitudes. Both have similar weights, but the Tempest has a larger wing area (28 square meters) versus (23.5) the H1, and has a more powerful engine too. On paper, the advantage is with the Tempest, but in this case and also in an interview with Willi (which is on YouTube by the way) Willi said that he had no difficulty in fighting against the Tempest, in that same interview Willi was asked if the H1 was better than the Dora, Willi said that the H1 EASILY surpassed the Dora, even though the Dora weighed less and had a more powerful engine, which would make the C3 at least superior to the Dora, but at a lower level, in that same interview he was asked about the P51, Willi said that he should not underestimate it, that it had a very tight initial curve, which made the German novice drivers get scared, and try to escape, but that doing so was a mistake, you should keep the curve and you would end up catching the P51, both in the 109 and 190 (Anton) why does this happen? simple, German fighters in general have a smaller wing area than Allied fighters, which makes them have a better roll rate, dive stability, etc., but which makes them not have such a tight instantaneous turn, but makes them conserve energy in turns with not such a tight angle, because their smaller wing area creates less friction with the air, so in a German fighter you should turn at a medium/medium-high angle, that’s what Willi meant, keep the turn at these angles, if the Mustang pilot tries to copy this strategy, his larger wing area will make him lose energy more quickly, if he closes the turn more he will lose energy more quickly, in the end running out of energy first in both tactics, becoming slow and unable to make tighter turns, that’s why German fighters are called energy fighters, Willi said that every experienced German pilot knew this, of course here in the game it doesn’t work like that, because War Thunder is not a pure simulator, that’s why it has “balancing”
Now About The Armament:
In the game the C3 is equipped with 1x 30mm cannon (MK 103) and 4x 20mm MG 151/20, something that is right and wrong at the same time, Focke Wulf was going to replace the MG 151/20 with the 15mm version (MG 151/15) in the Ta 152 C3, because in addition to having similar ballistics to the MK 103, improving the grouping of shots and consequently accuracy, it was also the only weapon that still had ammunition with a tungsten core for greater armor penetration, so the one that would have 4x 20mm MG 151 would be the Ta 152C1 that had the MK 108 in place of the MK 103 in the C3, including this is the main reason for the difference in weight between the C1 and the C3 in the first table, because the MK 103 weighs about 150kg and the MK 108 57kg, but if you look at the weight of the MG 151, they are the same for both, this is because in the table the C3 has the weight that it would have with the MG 151/20, because obviously the MG 151/15 is lighter than the 20mm version, and its ammunition too, with the MG 151/15 adding the weight of the ammunition and the cannons themselves, with the MG 151/15 the C3 loses 57kg, reaching a maximum weight of 5,385kg, this replacement is mentioned in Harmann’s book and also in a document from Fock Wulf
there is a typo in the table, where a pair of MG 151 is the 20mm version haha, but it is 4x MG 151/15mm hahaha
Now, as also shown in the image in the book, the C version of the Ta carried bombs, because one of its functions was ground attack, so it would be equipped with bombs, rockets and was also tested with torpedoes.
My goal with this post is to ask the developers to remodel the C3’s flight characteristics, because portraying it as being a heavier fighter than fighters that are heavier than it is wrong. It is the highest tier German piston fighter, but you can only do boom and zoom with it. Even ground combat is limited, since it has no bombs, rockets or torpedoes. With this data, I ask that in terms of maneuverability, it be made lighter, a little superior to the D9 in turns, but falling behind the K4 and obviously the H1. Superior to the D9, taking into account Willi’s statement about the H1 easily surpassing the D9, as is correctly represented in the game, taking into account that the C3 and the H1 have similar weights and that they cross each other, that the C3 has a smaller wing area, but still larger than the D9, and has a more powerful engine than both of them, and as shown in the AI simulation, it is not far behind the H1. its function was to combat at medium and low altitudes, Kurt Tank certainly would not make a plane that could not rival at least the Tempest, which would be its main adversary.
add at least rockets and bombs, since it was designed to be a fighter/fighter-bomber, and it does not have any of these weapons in the game, in return give a downgrade in its armament, putting the MG 151/15 in place of the MG 151/20 and reducing the ammunition of the MK 103 from 90 to 80, which is historically correct, as the images show.
Guys, I had to take 3 images, because I’m a new user, and I can’t put 5 more media items, I took the range chart of the Ta H1 and C3, the image of the P47 weight table from the pilot’s manual, and the photo of the Fock Wulf document about the armament of the Ta 152 C3, because it has the text from Harmann’s book that talks about the C3 having 4X MG 151 of 15mm and not 20mm, but I will leave the texts as I wrote
