Ah and i still dont like that they dont add up when u got more then 1 nation finished… this leads to me never going to buy more then one end of line vehicle ever… cause it would reduce my research on that nation forever without any benefit
I think the biggest issue is the comparison of how long it will take a player to unlock a tree (or all ground and air vehicles in game) before and after the bonus is introduced.
Then compare that time saving to how many vehicles they need to add to a tree for the time to get back to the exact same amount it was before the bonus was introduced.
That this above even exists as a possibility is my personal main concern and why so many players are asking for a cumulative bonus.
For example (some numbers taken out of thin air but most are relevant to my play):
Lets say it takes me 6 months to get through an air tech tree without premium and 3 months with (arbitrary numbers but close to my recent experiences).
I had during the test period an average bonus of 1200 RP per match with the 100% bonus.
if it is now 5 matches that means an extra 6000 RP per day for that specific tree.
That means that i gain one extra rank VIII jet after ~68 days (or 2 months and one week).
So with a premium account the amount of bonus i get during one tree climb can immediately be negated by in the future adding one rank VIII jet and one or two lower tier planes to that tree and i would be back to the same amount of time needed to climb that tree.
Taking into account how many vehicles they add in total each major update (around once every 3 months) and the bonus working as tested with just the change from 3 to 5 matches. The total time to unlock all vehicles in the game will be back to plus minus zero within 6-9 months and the bonus will just be a number that delayed the increase in total time by little more than half a year.
This is the main reason why so many players are asking for a cumulative bonus.
6 Likes
I agree.
And what is the main issue in summary? The grind has exploded like a atom bomb after 7.7…
not only having in general more vehicles to grind throug to get to the end of line but also increased the old end of line RP cost from 150k to over 400k.
Just thing about it, back then when the grind was ok (and even less nation back then aswell ) it has cost you around(estimation) 400-500k RP in total…
nowadays it will cost you your soul and money and around 1.5 Million RP per line(ignoring the fact you have to get more then just the direct line as we have a blocker that you have to overcome to progress into higher ranks)
For me personally, there are only one solution.
Reduce the grind in general to a reasonable state and if you want to keep veterans enganged make a healthy bonus for them but the second one is optional, the first one mandatory if you want to keep this game running for longer and with healthy players.
This Bonus we talk about right here and what they plan can only be the optional part, the grind needs to be reduced in general. No new player want to grind till they die and the world is full of great games that new players can switch to.
We old vets are lost but the new ones dont have that devil inside them yet.
and just a personal note at the end, i dont understand why gaijin is not seeing that. Making good games that engage also new players ultimately makes more profit, not only by having more players but also by having a good reputation for new games you delevop. Thats why i also dont understand why they havent invested a lot into PvE, as we have seen from Armored Warfare that a ton of good paing people love to not play in toxic, unfair PvP battles. Even i liked the PvE over there cause they had challenge modes in it at the start that doubled the RP earned when you made it (wich was only doable with the whole group being it Voicecall and coordinating)
wait its a lie, i know why they dont do it… but i dont care that its a risk…
I still vouch for that!
It is not the same to be grinding your 2nd nation, as it is to launch yourself on the crusade grinding a 9th nation, as would be my case when I finally decide to go for China.
I think the more nations you get, the more cummulative bonus you should get; it is only logical to encourage a player more the more time they spend on the game, so it feels gradually and progressively more rewarding.
If Gaijin is too afraid that full stacking would be too much (+100, +100, +100, +100…), they could make them stack like boosters; (+100, +66, +50, +33, +25, +12, +10…)
1 Like
I agree, the nation bonus they designed won’t really change much in grinding speed. And it’s sad it took them over a year to develop this system, it feels like a huge waste of time to me.
At the same time, we already have a system that could be the base for new nation bonuses:
Why not adding something like this:
If you get top vehicle in one nation, you would be able to spend 100k from convertible RP for free (without GE) every week.
This system could work in many different ways, for example adding +10k for every next top vehicle you research.
They could even double the bonus with a premium account, if they wanted to increase the value of a premium account:
The mentioned free convertible RP could be spend for vehicle research or vehicle modifications, as you wish.
That way, without designing and introducing something completely new, they would be able to use already existing convertible RP system that currently has very little use. It would also be very easy to implement and adjust if needed.
I’m sure also other players would have their ideas how the nation bonus could work. But unfortunately, the devs never asked players for their ideas. Instead, they spent so much time on designing the system that isn’t very existing, doesn’t solve any issues, and only creates the new problem (forces you not to buy top vehicles in other nations to keep the bonus).
I’m really disappointed with this nation bonus, but I already knew it won’t change much when they announced it over a year ago. Unfortunately, at that point they didn’t listen to anyone and kept pushing their poor idea forward anyway. And now, because it took them so long, they won’t give up on their idea, no matter what.
I guess we have to be happy now with what they presented. Even if it won’t really help much with grinding other nations faster. Just one vehicle can cost over 400k RP nowadays and you can’t even use the presented nation bonus to get vehicle modifications faster. Which is actually another huge problem - spading the same vehicles in different tech trees over and over again. The system they proposed doesn’t even touch this problem and, at least in my opinion, this problem is much bigger than researching vehicles in the tech tree.
5 Likes
Jea, being able to get free xp would also be super nice.
I mean, at the end… why not adding all ideas? FreeXP, Bonus for Vets, Grind reduction in total?
Sounds to much? Well look over the sea to WoT… they have all these systems active and even more… so its seems to work just fine to not make people need to sale their soul and lose all hope in the devs and partitially humanity.
At the end the problem are the players.
Cause the stuff is still bought, money is still made with every sale.
People suffer so bad while being addicted (or have whatever reason) that they basically storm the house evertime the 50% sale (or any sale) is going on, the demand is there, no need to change anythink to keep making money with the game.
And that ultimatly stops them from making any impactfull changes, every change is a risk, the more they change the higher the risk. Would you take a risk if you would be them?
If there would be a competitor, there would be a risk to lose player to them when your game gets unliked, but there is none. (we had that when Armored Warfare was still there and meaningfull, both WT and WoT made heavy changes and increased the development by a ton in that time)
edit*
so at the end, what can we do as consumers? Well, only changing our behaviour. Buy less, complain more. Don´t say “its the best we will get we can be happy about any change”… to many people have done that by now, thats why we got here in the first place.
1 Like
If they wanted to give you a big RP bonus, they would. The fact they designed the nation bonus this way means this system is only here to give you something. So they can say “we gave you additional RP already, what else do you want from us?”. During the test they said they want to see how much this will affect the grind, and we are talking about the system that will give you about 20-25% extra RP when you research top rank vehicles. Assuming you play 5 battles per day in specific nation (more battles won’t give you more bonus anyway), instead of 14 days previously, it will take you 11 days to research one top tier vehicle with a bonus. Does it really sound that exciting? I know it’s something, but it’s really not much.
I understand this bonus works for more nations, but it still doesn’t change the fact it will take ages to get just one specific vehicle, even with the presented bonus. We already have thousands of vehicles in the game, and every major update adds more of them.
Some players also had the idea to attach smaller permanent RP bonus for every spaded vehicle. That’s another good idea that would reward dedicated players. More you spade, faster you progress, I really like such system. And this would also encourage players to play all the vehicles (even bad ones).
I’m just trying to say, there are a lot of ways to introduce the nation RP bonus. And I have the impression that the devs choose the worst possible one, which is overly complicated in design and doesn’t even offer much. It’s just there to be there, it won’t really make any noticeable difference.
2 Likes
They delayed the RP bonus even more now to after the update, so will see. If they introduce the system with a minor tweak, I going to be furious.
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Well, whats your expectation? Better prepare the bloodpressure pills already if you expect any major change or improvement.
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Well this idea went down as fast as the Hindenburg
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M8 LAC - is in the chinese tech tree.
T14 - nothing special tbh. gets uptiered a ton anyway, where better mobility tanks are better. In a downtier - maybe, but heavy tanks are generally better in a downtier. this one isn’t special in that regard either.
T20 - I wouldnt say it’s the best 6.3 med. and things being under-BR’d for a while is nothing special, the PUMA comes to mind starting at 8.something and now being 10.0.
M551 (76) - You dont see it that much and it doesn’t feel strong when you play against it either. might seem strong on paper, but in gameplay it’s really not that bad. It also sits at a higher BR than comparable vehicles without a stab.
T29 - also the highest BR of the T29/30/34 series, therefore balanced. pretty much a sidegrade to the Tiger 2 10.5 anyway.
T114 - again, being under-BRd was a temporary balancing issue. it’s not that easy to get initial BRs right as people sometimes make it seem.
Merkave MK 1 and MK 2 - not premiums, but event tanks. also literally the same as the Israel TT ones.
XM-1 - you just called the Merkavas the best at 9.0 to 9.3 and then say this is the best, laughable. It’s a good tank but it’s made of cardboard and has a terrible round. there’s lots of better 9.3s in other trees. “better than anything in the US tree” doesn’t say much when the MBT-70 is the only other 9.3 (and it’s arguably better than the XM-1)
M1A1 Clickbait - literally just a M1A1 HC with a skin. it’s not 11.3 bc the M1A2s are better.
A-4E - there’s alot of comparable 9.3 attackers, it’s really not the best one.
A-10A - has AGM-65B instead of AGM-65D and only 2 AIM-9L instead of 4, that’s why it sits lower.
KV-1B - sits at a higher BR than the USSR TT one, ofc it has better armor to justify it.
VFW - lol, lmao even. the Panzer IV/70 is right there with a Panther gun at 5.7 and actual armor that bounces shots (Panther armor without the turret weakspots) and it doesn’t die to every HE impact within 20m. Calling the VFW the “only usable 5.7 germany has” just shows your knowledge is very lacking.
Tiger 2 Sla - I’ll give you that one, but the difference between 10.03 and 10.71 HP/T is minimal.
Ru 251 - sure, but also sits higher than comparable lights.
TURM III - one of the highest skill ceilings for sure, but also dies to a rank 1 shooting the turret. wouldn’t call it OP bc it’s a glascannon and doesn’t really belong at 8.7 either.
TAM2IP - ofc it’s better than the TT one, bc it’s at a higher BR.
Leo A1A1 L44 - just a sidegrade to the 1A5. Slightly thicker dart with slightly worse pen performance, and a tiny bit heavier. doesn’t make much of a difference in gameplay.
Class 3 P - it’s not really stronger than most other 9.0 TT tanks, just different. it’s a very unique tank. it’s an absolute house, which makes it alot easier to see, and you can circumvent it’s weird survivability by just knowing where to shoot. Definitely not worth of 9.3 either.
C2A1 - armor that doesn’t matter in most cases and makes it a bit heavier. Again, just a sidegrade.
PT-16/T14 - glasscannon again, has a high skill ceiling but also a higher skill floor, dies to anything that looks at it. It’s a worse Type 90 and would probably go up if enough people would play it to affect it’s stats.
Also that’s three event tanks you could get for free, and the ones selling them are other players, so none of them are P2W.
IL-2 - at 3.0, that has no proper ground lineup, has similar good options, and there’s better options at 3.3, that actually has a ground lineup
Do 335 B-2 - sits an entire 1.0 BR over the other Do 335s, ofc it’s the best of them, but it’s balanced by BR.
BF110 - “like techtree but with CAS gun” so, a sidegrade
BV 155 B-1 - it’s a high altitude fighter and it’s performance is quite terrible at lower altitudes, where it either compresses or has too little energy to do anything.
Me 262 A-1a/U1 - there’s better Me 262 for either job, the cannons make it too heavy, and it’s a squadron, you can unlock it without paying, therefore no P2W in any sense of the word.
Me 262 A-2 - “has a bomb” lmao so does the Jabo. Also again, event, not prem.
T-35 - Any actual argument for your claim?
SMK - well? any argument?
BT-7A - only 3.7 light for russia, okay. bc they have no other light tank that fits the BR. super strong, not really. the Puma is better, for example. For russia, I’d rather sit in a T-34 tbh.
T-34-57 - the turret is pretty much a sidegrade. it’s bigger and the improvement is minimal.
KV-220 - honestly a seal clubber. the gun is bad for 6.0 on a slow tank. Wouldn’t feel OP if people just cared to check where to shoot it.
Obj 248 - higher BR than early IS-2. Sidegrade to late IS-2 bc better gun, worse armor.
IS-6 - it was strong, but not “broken OP” at 7.3. Remember, there were also more HEAT slingers before the decompression. And then they corrected it to 7.7 when most of its threats got raised in BR, now it’s a sidegrade to the IS-4.
T-55AMD-1 - sidegrade to the TT one that has hardkill APS. The add-on cheek armor is about as situational as the APS.
BMD-4 - I’ll mostly give you this one, besides having even worse armor than the BMP-3 and dying easily to .50s, but it’s also an event tank.
Obj 279 - i feel like this settled at a BR where most of the enemys can pen it (if they aim instead of center massing it) and it mostly has the usual heavy tank problems related to uptiers/downtiers.
BMP-2M - also by far the highest BR out of any BMP, and is a squadron tank that you can research for free.
Obj 292 - again, a sidegrade imo. you often don’t need the extra pen and the reload is terrible at this BR. lack of any MG kinda hurts, doesn’t get thermals. it was a bit too strong at 10.0 but it went up quickly.
2S38 - just no. people that still have trouble with this have a serious skill issue.
T-72 Turms - it was never OP. it was still a T-72A at 10.0, with B variants in the TT. it trades armor against thermals. 105mm DM33 goes through it’s UFP, which is a 9.3+ round. and on most maps you dont need thermals anyway.
T-80 UD - it’s worse than the T-80B, while being better than the T-72B 1989, so i feel like this is more a compression issue.
T-80U-E1 - also a compression issue. it lacks 3BM60 and Relikt, but has some advantages over the T-80U. though tbf, Leo2A5 and Leo2A7V have bigger differences than this and the T-80U.
compression issue
MiG-21 PFM - another sidegrade. while you might like the gun better, it also sits in a gunpod and isn’t internal, which impacts flight performance and makes aiming harder. also cant take a gun and a drop tank.
Su-25k - worse than the techtree. has half the counter measures and is otherwise identical. R60MKs are identical to R60Ms, it’s just the export name.
Su-39 - only noticeable difference is the radar pod, which is a sidegrade to the targeting pod, if not worse.
Centurion MK.2 - Better than the Mk.1 and worse thant the Mk.3, sits in between them BR wise. your point?
Khalid - higher BR than any other Chieftain and not better than other 9.3s
Challenger DS - doesn’t have the ROMOR-A
Type 16 FPS - copy paste
Type 74G - higher BR than the others
M4A1 FL10 - M4A1 hull instead of M4A4. Turret is extremely wobbly. almost half the gun depression. again, a sidegrade - trades all of that for a better reload with an autoloader.
EBR 1954 - was op bc they didnt realize how strong the mobility alone is, got corrected. also, event.
Somua SM - much worse mobility, event
AMX 50 surblinde - much worse mobility, event
AMX 30 Super - AMX 32 gets a 120mm with better ammo and has a 20mm coax, AMX 30 Super only gets a .50 cal coax
can’t comment on a bunch of earlier jets and props bc I dont have alot of knowledge there (tho I don’t have faith in you there either given how bad your takes are on the things I commented on). But tank wise, my god are you WRONG. Most of what you list either is an obvious sidegrade to a TT variant, is simply not better than comparable tanks, sits at a different BR than the tanks you compare it to (no, “best BMP” doesnt make it P2W when it also sits WAY higher in BR), or is a compression issue that happens between TT tanks too, especially with minimal differences like M-51 having just a .50 that doesnt make it 6.3 worthy or the Tigris having track armor that almost never matters and doesnt make it 6.3 worthy. Yes, the OF-40 prem has better HP/T ratio than the TT one, but that also happens with the Chieftain Mk.3 and Mk.5 in the TT.
Only thing you’re proving here is that you have no knowledge about ground balance and love cherry picking certain characteristics. Sometimes a better gun is worth more for you than a worse hull, worse mobility, worse stability, etc (M4A1 FL10 vs. M4A4 SA50) and sometimes only slightly better mobility is more important than a worse gun (AMX 30 Super vs AMX 32)…?
I mean, could also be that you dont even know about the tanks you compare and can’t be bothered to check.
5K RP per battle on average that’s way above normal, particularly when trying to spade stuff. Unless you use premium vehicles all the way.
Oh, yeah, I tend to default to Premium Account values because I’ve been permanently on Premium for years and my brain subconsciously computes that this would be the case of the majority of active players, hahahah
Sorry but why are you trying do devalue the facs?
Arguments that u use like “that tank excist in another tree” dont devalue that its stonger as a prem in a nation that otherwisely have mostly underperforming stuff? whats that logic?
Same with “yea but u dont see it that often”?! that dosnt make that vehicle weaker lol, also vehicles played by dummies dont make a vehicle worse.
I dont want do go in a fight with you but if u consider stuff like mbt 70 being on paar with xm-1 i dont think that you have understood the game really, you have enough games played acc to your statcard but you barely played most of them and just skipped almost everything.
Its funny to me that u argue about stuff when u often never even played that nations BR in the first place
Especially when you argue that the Better OF-40 variant gets compared by you to the Chief mk3 and mk5…!!! what are u proofing here again? that the mk3 is bad and the mk5 is better? yes the mk5 is better usually but loses the doser that gives armor and gaijin always increse BR due to a dozer so what!?
Of40 Prem is still the best 9.0 you can get in italy?! so whats your point? its still p2w there!
i am getting really sick of your research, stuff like that and what u say about Me262 or AMX 30… dude the ME262 is a br lower in the techtree…the amx 30 is a ton faster then the tt, the 30mm less pen, no one cares. if you “only” have 361mm. Also feat like having smoke grenates and HE is a plain benefit. If you never use them its not my fault.
Last one to proof u really should have invested a bit more in your rent…
M4A1 FL10 vs M4A4 SA50, the FL10 has an autoloader with 5sec my dear.
Next time you better reasearche correctly or only speak of stuff u know and played of.
At the end its about P2W vehicles. Is the Vehicle better then what is available in the TT of that nation? Yes, to all of what i just wrote. U cant devalue it whitch crap like “china also has it” or “u think 30mm more pen is better then 25% hp/ratio/smokegrenates and HE” just because u camp all day long and never use smoke and HE stategicly
1 Like
Because you’re stating opinions not facts.
it’s not P2W when you have F2P access to a vehicle. “but I have to buy it for USA” isn’t an argument when it’s a chinese reserve vehicle you already have on your account when you start it for the first time. it’s literally just copy-paste.
OP vehicles would get played alot.
neither does it make a vehicle better when its only played by good players.
better armor, similar mobility, effectively pretty much the same gun performance, gets a 20mm. You’re the one that doesn’t understand the game.
You can’t even read. I said OF-40 MTCA having a little more engine power than OF-40 Mk.2A but being the same BR is similar to Chieftain Mk.5 having more engine power than Chieftain Mk.3 but being the same BR. It’s a compression issue.
LMAO wrong and wrong, the dozer is worth nothing and doesn’t increase the BR anywhere. give an example if you’re so sure about that.
It’s not P2W because it’s not the best 9.0 you can get in general. Just saying “it’s the best for this ONE SPECIFIC BR IN THIS ONE SPECIFIC NATION” is not a real argument. it doesn’t give you an unfair advantage over the people you play against. Especially bc you’re not playing Italy vs Italy.
So you can just use it at the same BR as the event one?
you’re REALLY reaching for straws here.
Not only does the AMX-32’s dart have more pen, but it’s also a 120mm one instead of a 105mm one, it has more mass, so it spalls better.
AMX-32 also has smoke grenades, so you’re wrong again. AMX 32’s OCC 120 G1 HEAT-FS has more explosive mass than the AMX-30 Super’s OE 105 F1 Mle.60 HE, you can just use that as a (better) pseudo HE round.
Also again funny how you just decide to forget about the AMX-32 having a 20mm coaxial while the AMX-30 Super only has a .50 cal. And since the AMX-32 is still very mobile, imo that’s easily worth the trade-off to be a sidegrade. None of these two is better than the other. One has better firepower, one is more mobile.
5s autoloader vs very instable gun (so you can only use the reload while standing still), worse armour, worse turret, worse gun depression.
You obviously neither played any of these nor do you care to take a proper look. You just look at the FL10, say “better reload”, call it a day and forget about the entire rest of the tank being alot worse.
You’re basically breaking every tank down to one single aspect instead of looking at the whole package. Yes, tanks at the same BR can have advantages in one aspect and disadvantages in one (or multiple) others. That doesn’t neccesarily make one better than the other, especially since not every advantage applies to every situation. What does an autoloader help when you can’t shoot first because your gun is ultra wobbly so you die? What does an autoloader help when you kill your target and the next one isn’t immediately around? What does an autoloader help when you can’t depress the gun enough to shoot in the first place? Think, Rinhord, THINK
A vehicle is only P2W when it’s better than most/all vehicles at a BR of every nation. “X tank is the best for Y nation at Z BR” is so hyperspecific its idiotic. So what if the OF-40 is the best 9.0 italy has, when you have a much better lineup with better tanks at 9.3 anyway? So what if the 1.0 tank isn’t free for the US but it is for China, just go play the chinese one? It’s not like you’re going to play more than a couple games before you’re done researching rank 1 & 2 anyway.
again, not my fault when you get the values wrong, forget half the features, and can’t even compare shells properly. 30mm pen + higher mass dart (more spalling) + 20mm coaxial + HEAT-FS that is better than the Super’s HE in any situation is better than 15% hp/t (23.29vs20 is NOT 25%, that would be 25vs20) + smoke shell, which is very situational when you have smoke grenades anyway.
You can’t even get the values right, just shows you’re just don’t know anything.
lets go back to the topic ey? U see world different, lets agree to disagree.
Not going to waste any more time with you on that topic. If u think we dont have p2w… feel free to believe that.
I would believe that almost everyone having a nation end of line vehicle has (or had for the grind) at least a Prem Account and that more then 50% will have some sort of Premium Vehicle at some BR.
We had that alrady, what we need is a General Grind reduction, any bonus for vets is a bonus. And yes the system announced here is a joke.
There is no system you can implement other then reducing the general grind to not cut of new players from grind balancing.