Can you share the evidence that this conversion was actually started? I have primary documentation only giving hypothetical performance, nothing saying the work was carried out.
I’ll find them and post them here.
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From what i understand Prototype #3 was only in the VERY early stages of the conversion with the Black Prince was canceled.
Likely not even to the point of the original engine being removed.
What’s the sources of that though? I’d love to see it.
Ed Francis shared these two primary sources, there’s likely more to the file but someone will have to ask him nicely. Text on first page says:
“access to the gear box, which could be used as an inspection hole and covered by a detachable plate.”
“A suitable opening in the hull roof plate must be made for engine access and the floor plate made suitable for receiving the new engine (something). Repositioning of inspection holes in the floor plate will also be necessary.”
“The rear bulkhead will have to be designed to suit the new installation.”
So it does sound like David Fletchers whole “it was incredibly simple, the engine just needed to be tilted X degrees” is wrong and far more work was required.
Id still say that fits with the Tiger II SLA-16.
As it needed a full redesign of the engine bay and engine deck for the SLA-16 to work in the Tiger II hull.
Creating new Engine mountings, and redoing a few hull openings wouldn’t be that time consuming, especially since the Centurion could be used a template (Minus the mountings, due to the Black Prince’s shorter hull Height, and the whole engine tilt thing)
that proposal was also made in June 1944, the Black Prince program wasn’t discontinued until mid 45, POST WAR. Even as the Centurion started rolling off the production lines, they were still looking into the Black Prince as a Option for a Infantry tank before that whole idea died off.
They even wanted to put the Stabilized Centurion MK2 Turret on the Black Prince before the FV201 became a thing.
So i think, and not just think KNOW, the Meteor Black Prince program got farther than just a few papers on the feasbility. Like i said, ive seen atleast basic engineering drawings for the Meteor engine bay in a book at SOME point. Sadly no idea when or where.
Also, random fun fact while im here.
The Surviving Black Prince is actually a Fully Functional Vehicle, it just has transmission issues that need attention, and its last Run was in 2012, when the issues finally got bad enough for the Tank Museum to put it away until they can get the engine bay cleaned of all its Asbestos, and get it back running.
The Image bellow is of it in 2012, at its last tank fest appearance, being towed back to storage after transmission issues.
(it also is reportedly a utter pain in the ass to drive, due to the Gear reduction they had to do with the final drives, to get the 350hp engine to even be able to move the thing, which makes it exceptionally hard to change gears without stalling, even before the Transmission issues.)
As advocatus diaboli, the M60A1 DC was nerfed significantly while the suggestion for the Black Prince is likely to improve it quite significantly.
Shouldn’t forget CV90 105 TML to CV90 105 XC-8 are more or less the same sort of suggestion as this where an existing prem is replaced with an improvement and the old prem is added as a TT vehicle later.
In both cases, Gaijin replaced the originally offered tank with something that played identically to how said original tank was sold.
In the Black Prince’s case, you’d be replacing a slow but extremely heavily armored tank with a faster one with similar armor, but at a higher tier where it’s armor is less special.
Some people would consider this a straight upgrade, some wouldn’t. I have no dog in this fight, I’m just pointing out that Gaijin isn’t likely to do this due to the likeliness of players being upset with them.
The players that would be upset are the unreasonable ones that don’t want any change to the game period. Their opinions are definitely the minority and based off of obviously flawed logic. A poll of people who actually have the black prince is likely to majority prefer the upgrade even if it pushes the tank to 6.3 BR.
Gaijin shouldn’t let clearly unreasonable people hold the game hostage.
The easiest solution is just implementing the (missing) 360 degree smoke launcher feature the premium BP has. Then implement one of the other pilot vehicles (slight variation in roof design) with the traditional facing forward smoke launcher.
Slightly better armor, due to the Different casting and hardening methods on the turret face and Mantlet.
The Black Prince in game is BP #1, which had the Traditional Forward firing smoke launcher so…
That is why the Black Prince as we have it now would become a Tech Tree vehicle. It wouldn’t just be getting replaced out right, it still would be in the game, Just as a Separate Vehicle.
No it’s not, this smoke launcher is the 360 degree one.
Regular front facing smoke launcher.
Okay and? the Maus and many other vehicles have Traversable Smoke launchers, and they don’t work on them so…
Premium versions of tech-tree vehicles are typically slightly better. If Gaijin add the ability to turn your smoke launcher 360 degrees that’s a premium advantage over a tech tree one.
I mean…
- Constant barrage of high tier premiums
- Copious copy paste to ensure there’s always something new to grind, regardless of quality
- Corridor meta
- No APHE rework
- Constantly escalating war between CAS and SPAA
I could go on, but I think you get the point. Gaijin’s business model is to constantly pander to the loudest, richest customers first, then try to make a decent game out of what is left.
Would said armor improvements actually help it resist rounds the current BP can’t? It’s a legitimate question, since I’m not familiar with the actual amounts.
You mentioned that the new mantlet can resist the long 88 at 500m, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot when Gaijin’s modeling of armor hasn’t factored in real life performance (IE the 90mm M3’s solid shot being able to pen a Panther’s UFP at medium ranges IRL, but it’s completely incapable of doing that in game).
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And yet… No other tank in the game has the Functionality…
It wouldn’t even be USEFUL.
The BPs turret already turns fast enough to throw smoke where ever you need it.
Generally the whales are not the same ones that want to hold the game hostage, because whales usually accept buffs (as this would be) happily. It’s rarely the case that people would look at an improvement to something they purchased being given out for free and protest against it. The people who want the game to remain in stasis with no changes are not the majority or a relevant paying minority. Their opinion should not be considered when their only response to anything is “don’t do it”.
Also a good number of the things you listed had nothing to do with the monetization aspects of the game. APHE, map design and SPAA/CAS balance are all quite separate from monetization.
It’s arguable if it’s a buff. Getting more mobility certainly is, but taking a vehicle that’s utterly reliant on it’s strong armor and pushing it up in BR would be a nerf.
I’d need concrete figures on how much of an armor buff it would be recieving, as well as getting a feel for how much more mobile it is, before I’d be confident calling this a buff.
But they were as a result of people holding the community hostage. They want their game to remain the same (or, in some cases, to go back to the way they were used to playing/not have to adapt to new ways of playing).
It’s not meant to be super useful, only to make it unique compared to a TT version.