90mm ammunition load out changes

Yeah, I’m trying to make sure the new site and big reporting system doesn’t let anything get missed. I don’t know how many of these I will do but I’m trying to get some of the main ones covered.

@MiseryIndex556 I believe it was established in a thread on the old forum that the “large filler” 90mm shell didn’t exist, it was a just a typo in the document.

That’s fair. I figured that might be the case. Either way, the M26 should have both the original M82 and super charged M82. Same goes for basically every production 90mm vehicle in game.

Except I believe it was then re-estabilished that it did exist because @KillaKiwi found blueprints where one M82 had slightly larger filler than another.

Edit: Found one of the examples:

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Also, Conraire posted these documents showing the .44 lbs filler.

One thing I’ve noticed here is “M304 20LBC”.

Do you have more information on this round? 20 lb sounds like the weight of the complete round rather than the core.

There was an M304 tested with a 20 lbs core. I don’t know what the total round weight or velocity would be.

AP shells (as well as other military equipment) don’t just suddenly change. If any changes are introduced, the new design is standardized under a new designation. For example the difference between 37mm M51B1 and M51B2 shells is just the way the windscreen is attached (crumpled vs soldered), but this still was awarded a different name.

If a different design of the 90mm APC was made, it would’ve been assigned a different name, for example M82A1, instead of using the old designation. Which is why I believe that there were no changes in its design during the war.

However we also know for a fact that M82 was changed at least once with no change to it’s designation at all when a new propellant was tested that gave it a 2800 ft/s muzzle velocity in roughly late 1944, and would’ve showed up in roughly early 1945.

Besides, all of this doesn’t explain the fact that there just are diagrams/blueprints for M82 that visibly show entirely different amounts of filler. It also isn’t just one document that says 0.44 lb of filler, which makes it being a mistake just less likely.

Well, maybe that’s it. “Tested”. Maybe the round with more explosive actually was never used by troops.
Maybe it was changed before it got used in the field, therefore the name was kept the same, since troops never received any other version.

Except then there’s technical manuals that talk about the 0.44 lb filler, such as the three TMs provided by Conraire that have been crossposted by MiseryIndex556.

Inside a spoiler because big quote with very large images

Given that the TMs make no mention of the 0.31 lb filler version, unless there was no M82 round fired until late 1944 (all of these TMs are from late 1944), then it doesn’t seem like troops would’ve had access to any other 90 mm APCBC round (except M82 where the filler was removed).

Even if the large filler round was just for testing, it doesn’t justify not allowing US tanks to have access to multiple variants of the M82. Every other tree gets access to different variants of their AP rounds. The US should too. It’s such a strange double standard.


Hmmm, yes, you got a point there.
I’ve checked the Wikipedia article about this gun and it seems that those crazy Americans are using designations for shells (ammunition) and shells (projectiles) interchangeably. Which greatly complicates attempts to track down the timeline of changes to either.

I’ll just agree, for now, that we can’t exclude that M82 (projectile) was altered at some point during the war and we just don’t know when it happened.

I know the super charged M82 was introduced in 1945, so the change to .31 lbs explosive D may have been at that time as well.

I agree, it is most likely changed with the introduction of the M6 powder propellant. Anything prior to it should have 0.44 lbs filler.

So, how do we convince Gaijin to make this change?

The first thing would be proving the Catalog of Standard Ordnance Items is wrong.

It will be quite difficult, since the developers have based all the BRs on that failed mechanic, and now doing it right would change a lot of things in the game.

What does the catalog list for the 90mm M3?

24.06 lb projectile, 0.31 lb explosive D filler, 2670f/s muzzle velocity. Propellant is 7.31 lb nonhygroscopic(NH) powder and total weight is 42.75 lb. Current in game characteristic matches with the catalog.