5th Gen Will Ruin the Game — Here’s Why

Game Discussion General Discussion
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In my opinion, yes, it would be really cool if 5th gens were added, but right now, War Thunder is nowhere near ready for 5th-generation jets; it needs way too much work, and it would ruin top-tier performance, not just air top-tier but also ground top-tier.

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• Missile Problems

From my experience, AIM-7s and every other SARH missile are completely broken in the sense that chaff is basically just for show 99% of the time, at least for early BR. Chaff does nothing, which it should — chaff works better on SARH than on actual ARH missiles — but in the game, I can chaff all I want and nothing will happen. I have to be scraping the bottom of my jet to even have a chance to dodge SARH missiles.

AIM-9Ls are the best AIM-9s in the game. The F-22 mainly uses AIM-9X and AIM-120D, not M or C variants. Yes, it can use them, but it’ll make it less realistic. If Gaijin did add AIM-9X and AIM-120D, it would be way too OP. AIM-9X has an IIR seeker, extreme off-boresight helmet cueing, and can be fired at targets way off the nose, and it also has thrust vectoring — it’s not even considered in the same generation as the L/M.

The AIM-120D has better INS, GPS-aided navigation, a two-way data link, better tracking memory, improved resistance to notching and chaff, longer effective range, a bigger no-escape zone, and way better performance at altitude. These all would make the game horrible. Basically, if they added the AIM-9X and AIM-120D, it would be massively unfair for every person in the game, especially in arcade.

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• Classified Data Issues

This is probably the biggest issue, if not the second biggest issue. 99.999% of all 5th-gen aircraft data is classified, which would make Gaijin have to basically guess on everything: 5th-gen RCS, how RCS changes when weapons bays open, when the aircraft climbs, maneuvers, IR signatures, degradation of the stealth coating over time, and how it changes when damaged. Without knowing even a little, it would make the 5th gens either absolutely OP or very underpowered.

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• Up-tier Problems

I’m 11.3 getting put in 12.7 games or in 12.3 games, where somehow prem F/A-18Cs get in. If 5th gens did get added (15.0+), it would be a nightmare for uptiers. Even though uptiers are supposed to only be +1 BR, more than +1 still happens, and that might mean 13.7 getting into 15.0+, and they are bound to happen. Basically, every 4th gen and 4.5 gen would get pummeled by the new 5th-gen territory, and they would get absolutely demolished.

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• Stealth Doesn’t Exist

The only “stealth” aircraft in the game right now is the F-117, and the only thing it has going for it is missiles have a hard time locking onto it — that’s it. If they added 5th-gen fighters with true stealth capabilities, they’d need to rework almost everything from missiles, radar, all of that. And they can’t not add stealth capabilities to 5th gen, because then they would basically be the same as 4.5-gen fighters, only a tad upgraded.

There is no way to add stealth the correct way or the fair way, especially with the SPAA and missiles in-game. They’d also need to add a whole new mechanic for stealth degradation when getting damaged or after surviving a long time.

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• Ground BR Limitations

Ground BR is 12.7 at its highest, while air BR is 14.3. There is a massive outlier there, and especially if Gaijin does add 5th gens, it’ll make the outlier even more. They would need to add a whole new ground BR, especially for SPAA, because realistically, the SPAA in-game would not stand a chance unless they majorly buffed every single SPAA — which would make all 4th-gen and 4.5-gen jets useless.

Gaijin would have to add SPAA with a longer range of 20–40 km, which still wouldn’t guarantee kills. They would need non-binary radar detection, limited passive detection (IRST-style detection cones, bearing-only tracks, cueing radar where to look), and a higher BR, which would be a problem for regular vehicles and tanks. It would also cause a realism issue because 14.3 and 15.0+ BR would intersect.

Some vehicles they would have to add:

US PAC-3, DE PAC-3, RU S-300PMU-2 (or heavily nerfed S-400), GB Sky Sabre (CAMM-ER), JP PAC-3, CN HQ-9B, IT SAMP/T NG (ASTER 30 Block 1 NT), FR SAMP/T NG, SE PAC-3, IL David’s Sling.

These are the only SPAA systems that can realistically threaten 5th-gen aircraft.

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• 4.5 Gen Is Already Pushing WT’s Limits

The top tier is absolute chaos from what I’ve seen. You have missiles that basically are gonna kill you no matter what (R-27ER). SARH and ARH are OP without chaff working correctly. Every missile has a massive no-escape zone, so it’s a lot harder to survive, and most people shoot ARH missiles at you after spawning (AIM-120C). If 4.5 jets are struggling with basically unavoidable BVR pressure, missiles that you have to react perfectly to avoid, and reduced ability to play aggressively, imagine what stealth + better missiles would feel like.Text

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Gives Gaijin a reason to decompress ground, I don’t see an issue

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Dont worry, they will give them all sorts of unrealistic nerfs and changes so they can shove it into the game.

After all, only thing that matters to a lot of people is seeing the name and model in game.

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Does Gaijin have to fix problems we currently have before 5th gen?: Yes.
Does fixing these problems make money?: No
Will adding 5th gen soon make money?: Yes

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Calculating RCS values IRL is already extremely hard to do. I want to see how Gaijin’s spaghetti code will calculate Su57 to be stealthier than the f22 in some angles.

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Chaff is very much not show, and works when notching PD modes correctly.

F-22A’s first missiles were AIM-9Ms, with AIM-9Ls used in training and exercises.
F-22A wasn’t integrated with AIM-9X for quite some time.

AIM-120C-3 onward is used on F-22s.

On top of this, new countermeasures have been developed over the last 2 decades that deal with IIR seekers.
The world isn’t using the RF-4’s flares anymore.

All classified data except specific RCS windows is not relevant for gameplay purposes.

Stealth is continually being worked on in War Thunder.

War Thunder’s limits are not related to jets themselves.

Not sure why R-27ER is brought up when the last time one fragged me was so long ago I forgot. The most recent memory of dying to one was over a year ago, but that’s memory.

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Not is some angles, gaijin will make SU-57 more stealthy in all angles

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Yeah, I’m not saying chaff never works in a vacuum. I’m saying the fact that you already need perfect notching, perfect geometry, altitude control, and instant reactions just to survive shows how tight and unforgiving top tier already is. That’s kind of my whole point. Missile defense right now requires near-perfect play, not just “use chaff correctly.”

On the F-22 missile stuff, I’m not arguing early service timelines or training loads. The point is that 5th-gen jets are fundamentally designed around weapons like AIM-9X and later AMRAAM variants, and WT already struggles to model way smaller generational gaps properly. If the game can barely handle current SARH/ARH behavior, adding IIR seekers, extreme HOBS, and better datalinked ARH missiles would just scale the same problems up even harder.

I also don’t really agree that classified data “isn’t relevant to gameplay.” Stuff like detection timelines, stealth effectiveness, how sensors behave, and how stealth degrades aren’t flavor details — those are core mechanics. If Gaijin has to guess, 5th gens either end up absurdly OP or artificially nerfed to the point where they’re basically just fancy 4.5 gens.

And saying the R-27ER isn’t a problem because you personally haven’t died to one in a while doesn’t really address the meta. Its impact shows in how early people go defensive, how limited aggressive play is, and how BVR pressure dominates matches. That’s a system issue, not an anecdote issue.

I’m not saying 5th gen can never be added. I’m saying with the current BR structure, SPAA, detection, and missile mechanics, the game just isn’t built to support them yet. Adding them now would only amplify problems that already exist at 4.5 gen.

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I think everyone should try to submit as many bug reports as we can for the issues we currently have. There’s gonna be a flood of bug reports for 5th gen and next gen missiles. The likes we have never seen.

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It’ll severely damage new players coming into the game if a lot of people get mad and make a fuss about it

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They are not gonna fix it anyways or take forever to fix it

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At least it won’t get drowned out so the bug moderators can’t accept any

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They did not accept my actual bug reports :(

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I think it will work out and will be fine F-35 is not that fast of a plane.

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It’s not the speed at all — it’s literally everything else about 5th gen that’s the problem. Stealth, sensors, missiles, everything.

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How stealth degrades isn’t classified information… that’s just in scientific papers.

The only thing stealth related that is classified on stealth gen 5s [as most gen 5s are likely not going to be stealth] is the specifics, and the only specifics that matter that won’t be able to be implemented is all of the windows/angles.

There will be rough-ins for the angles, and estimations.

R-27ER didn’t change how people play War Thunder… The AIM-7E-2 on the F-4E changed how people played War Thunder, then the F-4J and FGR2. After those… nothing really changed besides newer aircraft being able to lock you from the rear at low altitude and shove a radar missile up the exhaust.

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F-35 is not the only plane. You have F-22, J-20, SU-57, J-35, SU-75 and prototypes

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I don’t really agree.

Yeah, there are papers on stealth degradation, but WT doesn’t run on theory — it runs on when you get detected and how solid the track is. That changes with angle, altitude, maneuvering, damage, and time, and that’s not data Gaijin can just model cleanly. Once you’re using “rough estimates,” you’re guessing core gameplay, which leads to stealth being either OP or barely relevant.

It’s also not just about angle windows. Detection timing alone can decide fights, even outside deep top tier — seeing someone a few seconds earlier is huge.

And I’m not saying the R-27ER invented BVR, just that it pushed the meta further toward early defensive flying and constant missile pressure. Things are already really tight.

That’s the point: WT already struggles when missile capability jumps. 5th gen wouldn’t be one more step — it stacks stealth, sensors, and better missiles, and approximating all of that with the current systems will just make existing problems worse.

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If 5th gens were added, it would be F-35A/B vs F-35A/B 90% of the time. The only other 5th gens are the F-22, J-20, and Su-57. It would be the most boring, repetitive thing in the world.

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It does, it’s just that the proper maneuver to employ depends on the specific missile / radar mode combination you are being attacked by. And often if you aren’t careful you may not have the time you need to employ the proper techniques, and be within the NEZ with no hope. And anyway for most early missiles you can kinematically defeat them reliably by simply rolling due to poor modeling of their guidance systems.

You can already see how IIR missiles are going to be implemented with the AIM-9X-2’s addition to the CLAWS / NASAMS in ground modes, it’s basically a slightly improved FIM-92 seeker.

The F-22 only recently received HMD integration in testing, it’s not quite yet in service so there is a good chance its going to straight up not turn up or be removed due to being an “early” (pre '25) configuration. Depending on the helmet given of course.

Considering you need a sensor track to allow the seeker to slew to a target and that the APG-77 is limited to +/- 60 degrees (as far as we know), with no EOTS/ IRST you are going to have to rely on the airframe’s performance to get the nose on to make use of the missile. Which heavily limits the usefulness of HOBS capabilities.

Unless of course ESM mechanics were implemented allowing a RWR contact to be handed off to the seeker, and maintain a weapons grade track to provide updates over datalink to said missiles. but that depends on Gaijin being fairly generous with the new mechanics, to make things work, and it’s not like no other aircraft could benefit.

Also being limited to at best a 6 + 2 loadout means you will be very much limited by magazine depth and so won’t be able to waste many missiles to shape an encounter in a 16 vs 16 environment if you expect to get more than one or two kills.

Ok, we can solve that by replacing it with the AIM-9R, which is just an AIM-9M with the IIR seeker. There are options if TVC was to be seen to be too powerful. Which it won’t since the -9X is by far the worst performing 5th gen IR missile, considering that service date makes no difference in WT.
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Buddy it’s built off the -C-5 airframe, so it’s not going to be great due to Gaijin not actually implementing any of the outstanding accepted reports on the AMRAAM, and with the lack of other sensors it’s limited to a gentle crank at best to maintain a track, where aircraft like the AESA Typhoons, SM-2 and Su-57 are going to be able to support guidance past the Notch, with greater quantities of Datalinked, TVC ARH missiles, with higher maneuverability for those close in shots.

In short the F-22 is going to need to be carried by the Airframe’s performance, but the ordnance and stores are going to very much be the worst in class for War Thunder’s encounter style, with no comparative edge anywhere. The Su-57 with it’s “LDIRCM” module, and Flank AESA arrays (precedents would imply that it’s radar is going to be about a +/-135, so it will be well capable of maintaining a data link while “dragging”, not just notching) will be far more concerning in my eyes.

look up how Air Arcade Matchmaking interacts with the lineups, to bring a “+1.3 BR” airframe, you are limited otherwise too no greater than two “+.7” so there is a tradeoff to be made.

Matchmaking | War Thunder Wiki
"The average BR for this type of matchmaking is calculated using three aircraft with the highest BR in the crew slots.

This matchmaking is used in Air Arcade Battles. It allows the player to retain the already well upgraded aircraft while researching more modern vehicles, since the player’s new aircraft can participate in battles with a slightly lower BR, where it can be upgraded more comfortably.

The average BR can be lower than the highest BR of vehicles in the crew slots by one step at most (i.e., if the highest BR in the preset is 5.0, then the average BR cannot go lower than 4.7)."

Historically there used to be a BR Wall for a time when the F-104 was introduced that prevented 8.7 from being up-tiered, this could easily be re-implemented if that stats proved it to be needed, or just wholesale banned from the mode considering the “Air Assault” mode straight up can’t be played in 13.0+ aircraft.

They really don’t, I wouldn’t expect that “Stealth” features are going to be better than the current implementation of the F-117 as it is now. The main advantage to the tranche of Stealth enabled Fighters is that they are also going to perform much better kinematically and have A2A ordnance.

Also you can just bypass it by using an IRST / EOTS systems that have propagated though top tier aircraft at this point. which will especially punish anyone that goes supersonic due to skin heating massively spiking their IR signature.

The tradeoff would be the much reduced magazine depth, and until the GBU-53/B, or more modern bespoke stores(e.g. SiAW) is added the best the F-22 / F-35 get is a pair of 1000 / 2000lb JDAMs (F-22 can’t laser designate so has no moving target capability otherwise, even with L-JDAM kits) or 8x SDB-I, and are reduced to a pair of AMRAAMs (+ Sidewinders for the F-22, or 1 JDAM+3 AMRAAM for dissimilar bays).

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