Centurion Mk 3 (1947) - no stabiliser, no sabot, the missing piece to Britain's 6.7 lineup

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Centurion Mk 3 (1947)

Cheers to Ed Francis for finding the photographs for this one, buried deep in the National Archives.

Introduction

Early Centurion History

The development of the Centurion began in 1943, as a response to the immediate threat posed by German heavy tanks, such as the Panther and Tiger. British tank doctrine at the time relied on cruiser tanks for mobility and infantry tanks for protection, but neither could effectively match German armour in both firepower and survivability. Interim, improvised solutions, such as the Challenger and Sherman Firefly were adopted, but a purpose-built solution was needed. To address this, the General Staff issued specifications for a new heavy cruiser tank, designated A41, which combined thick, sloped armor with a 17-pounder gun, and, potentially most importantly, abundant capability for future upgrades. The earliest designs and prototypes, designated P1 - P-15 (later only P1 - P10), incorporated a Polsten 20mm cannon as a secondary armament for engaging lightly armored vehicles and infantry. Vickers-Armstrong was chosen to lead the project, and despite wartime resource constraints, the first prototype was completed in early 1944.

Production of the first ten prototypes was carried out under wartime urgency, with the goal of deploying them to mainland Europe. By February 1945, these vehicles were undergoing final assembly. The Polsten 20mm cannon, initially included for additional firepower, was mounted in the turret but was later deemed unnecessary and removed in subsequent versions. By April 1945, the first six Centurion prototypes were shipped to Belgium for field trials, but with the war in Europe ending in May, they did not see combat. The remaining four were completed shortly thereafter and used primarily for evaluation and refinement of the design. Despite some thing issues, this field testing proved to be a resounding success, and soon after an order was placed for 800 tanks, the first 100 of which were to be A41*, or Centurion Mk 1.

Following the trials and introduction of the Centurion Mk 1 & 2 in 1945/46, both armed with the 17pdr, it was already recognised that an increase of firepower was a necessity for the tank. While the 17pdr was among the best of the Allied tank guns to see service in the war, especially once the flaws of the sabot ammunition were ironed out, this was a period of rapid advancements in firepower and the British were not to be left behind.

This increase in lethality was to be provided by Britain’s newest tank cannon, the 20pdr, which had emerged victorious from the battle royale of British wartime cannon projects, including the 28pdr, the 32pdr, the 37pdr, and the rather monstrous 55pdr. All things considered, retrofitting the 20pdr proved relatively easy - the Centurion had been designed from the outset to be a highly upgradeable machine. The ready rack and casing collection basket had to be rearranged because the breech sat further back in the turret, and a few other changes were made, but in short order a design for the 20pdr was finalised, and in 1947 the Centurion Mk 3 was born.

This suggestion is for essentially the earliest possible Centurion Mk 3, as produced in 1947. This would be unique compared to the later Centurion Mk 3 in-game in several ways. Firstly, the earliest 20pdrs were available without APDS ammunition, whilst a modified 20pdr, designated the 21pdr, was designed in order to facilitate the development of the sabot.

Second, the very earliest gun laying equipment fitted to Centurion Mk 3s, the FV/GCE No. I Mk 3, was not stabilised.

vtgy

And finally, an important visual distinction, identifying this tank as one of the first, if not the very first, 20pdr Centurion Mk 3s, is the very unique single baffle muzzle brake on the 20pdr, a transitional design halfway between the double baffle 17pdr and the later Type A 20pdr.

So, in summary, this vehicle would be a very early Centurion Mk 3, with no stabiliser and no APDS, meaning from an in-game perspective it would be broadly equivalent in protection and firepower to the usual suspects at 6.7 - the Tiger IIs and the various US heavies, an area badly in need of attention with the current gap in Centurion between 6.0 - 7.7 (no, the Conway doesn’t bloody count). Alongside this, the unique 20pdr would be an ideal way for the tank to be visually distinguishable so opponents can tell what variant they are actually fighting, while also being a unique historical nod to a very elusive British tank.

Specifications

Spoiler

Images

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Centurion Mk 3 (1947)

Sources

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Centurion Mk 3 Pictoral File, National Archives, Kew - once again cheers to Ed Francis for digging this one up

Centurion Mk 3 Armament Pamphlet - Cheers to Jarms for this one

imagejhn

vtgy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNKFNNDQHw

https://royaltankregiment.com/vehicle/centurion-mark-3/

14 Likes

+1, but the specs are a bit basic, even if most of the vehicle is already in-game. Would make for a good event/premium variant.

1 Like

Centurion Mk.2 is 6.7 and premium BP reward, which is unfortunately exclusive to those people who can afford it on the community market.

That thing should have been made as the TT addition, but that’s not our reality.

4 Likes

I agree, luckily I did play the BP with the Mk.2, but this suggestion above could be a decent replacement.

+1, would give us a solid TT tank for 6.7 or so good armour, workable manoeuvrability, and a decent gun and reload, but not without its weaknesses

always others Mk.2s to come, one with a stab and a downrated engine, and one with the same engine but no stab, or no stab and a weaker engine

it is a shame it wasn’t tech tree though

2 Likes

+1 because noobs will get whiplash when they leave the tiger 2 for the leo 1 and start seeing disgusting moving shots from that unstabilised medium they used to see sometimes

5 Likes

1+ Its always nice to see the British TT getting some attention and it would also be awesome to see a viable British 6.7 TT vehicle other than the G6

1 Like

why not britain could use some filler at this br and its not copy paste so im good +1

1 Like

+1, very neat

1 Like

Always love your suggestions bud. +1

Absolutely needed to bridge the gap.

3 Likes

Big +1! What a missing link!

Would be very important in tech tree gap terms, and could form the basis of a folder with Conway (with its class corrected back to TD).

2 Likes

Arround 7.0-7.3, Centurion mk.2 already at 6.7. It would make a great addition, especially with the 32‑pounder cannon variant.

Is there a Centurion Mk 2 (1947) suggestion somewhere or on the way?

It would be worse in every regard than something like the AMX M4 that currently sits at 7.0.

There’s no reason at all for a Centurion Mk 3 with no APDS and no stabiliser to be any higher than 6.7.

2 Likes

Reload would be acceptable for 7.0

APCBC is similar in perofrmance to the 90mm French with less mobility.

That’s remember me the old time when 4202 was 6.0, no apds. (Sorry for graphics, old 1050TI, current 2016)

You’re also forgetting mobility and armour.

Centurion Mk.2 being a BP reward is one of the best arguments for demanding that Gaijin re-run various reward vehicles, alongside the F11F-1 and F4D-1. Travesties.

3 Likes

The Centurion 2 being a BP vehicle was one of the dumbest choices. I’ve already proposed 2 ways to still get one:

  • Centurion Mk II (1946): No stabiliser and Meteor Mk IV. Would easily slot into 6.3 before this.
  • Centurion Mk II (Meteor Mk IV): Gets the stabiliser but still has the Meteor Mk IV. Could be the TT 6.7, the BP vehicle gets 40 more HP.

The bracketed names are just ways to distinguish them.