Censored Haukenkruz (Decal and/or Replacement)

Suggestions Skins
1
Would you like to see this in-game?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
If yes, how should it be added? (Multiple Choice)
  • Standalone Decal
  • Red Background Version Decal
  • Flag Version (For Naval Vessels)
  • Texture Addition/Replacement on Air Vehicles
  • Other
  • I don’t want it to be added
0 voters
If yes, how should it be added? (Multiple Choice) (fixed)
  • Standalone Decal
  • Red Background Version Decal
  • Flag Version (For Naval Vessels)
  • Texture Addition/Replacement on Air Vehicles
  • Other
  • I don’t want it to be added
0 voters

Censored Haukenkruz
The Haukenkruz, colloquially known as the “Swastika,” was found throughout the German Military during the Second World War. While somewhat represented in game, through the use of an X symbols on the tails/roundels of some aircraft, it disappears after a while.

Example

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Two in game aircraft; Bf 109 E-1, left, and Bf 109 F-1, right.

The symbol was banned from video games in Germany up until recently, and despite being quite a “hot” subject, I believe that there can be a compromise struck between authenticity and what is allowed to be represented today.
Enter, the censored version of the Haukenkruz.
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Censored Haukenkruz, seen on the tails of three flyable Bf 109/HA-1109/-1112 registered in Germany.

This censored version of the Haukenkruz can be seen on some airworthy Bf 109s in Germany, which itself has strict rules against Swastikas. While full Swastikas can be permitted in video games (under the exception that video games can be a form of art), this suggestion pertains to a censored version, which arguably would be have more grounds to be clean, legally speaking.

The censored Haukenkruz is also present in the Russian game series IL-2: Sturmovik, which gives some credence to its potential presence in War Thunder.

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Censored Haukenkruz, seen on the tail of a Bf 109 G-6 depicted in IL-2: Sturmovik, from their Facebook, 2017.

They also censored the Finnish version, seen here.

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Censored Swastika, seen on the roundels of a Finnish Bf 109 G-6 depicted in IL-2: Sturmovik, also from their Facebook, 2017. The Finnish Swastika has no relation to the Haukenkruz, other than its shape.

Conclusion
I think it would fit well in the game, to replace/supersede the barren tails of most German planes and the small x or + that used to be present, as it looks better than said x or +. It would allow for a representation of what historically was, hopefully without the controversy that may come with having a full Haukenkruz/Swastika. In my opinion, it should be a decal, to allow the player to place the censored Haukenkruz on their plane if they wish to, and allow other players to forgo doing that, if they so choose.
However, it would not be entirely unreasonable to add this symbol as a part of the texture for most planes’ default skin. But, given the amount of work it would be to create two separate textures for an “applied” and “not applied” version, and the amount of file size that would be added as a consequence, I think it would be best added as a decal.

References

old-forum.warthunder - Politically Correct Swastika (where I got the idea)
wikipedia - German War Flag
wikipedia - Strafgesetzbuch Section 86a
Facebook - IL-2 Sturmovik In-Game Pictures

3 Likes
2

It being a separate decal would be a nightmare. would be plastered all over unrelated vehicles, even if it is censored. +1, but as texture on German planes

4 Likes
3

people would just fill it in with 1 decals too

6 Likes
4

I think this “censored” version just looks kinda stupid, I’d rather just have a cross or X than the 4 lines.

Also as people said it’s really easy to spruce up into an “uncensored” swastika, need only 2 line decals instead of 4. Though imo I don’t really care and I’d rather just have an uncensored swastika in-game, but I understand why it’s not.

1 Like
5

I’m going to state an opinion which may be a bit controversial, but I want it to be said.
The swastika is just another symbol. It has no more or less meaning than any other emblem of a military or government. People treat it like some sort of demonic sigil, but it was just an ancient good luck cross adopted by a particular political movement. If we were really concerned about banning symbols of oppressive empires, we wouldn’t allow the hammer and sickle, Chinese stars, or even the Union Jack. You either ban all of them or none of them. The idea that the swastika needs to be specially banned is frankly absurd.
It also gives it more power. By making it illegal to use or show, you keep perpetuating the idea that it has power over people. Don’t give it any special treatment, and it loses all that power. Let it fade into history like everything else. Make the game actually historical and allow the proper symbols or ban all nation images and make everything fictional, because every nation has oppressed someone at some point in history - how far back do you want to go?

3 Likes
6

This is a great way to look at it, yes it was used by a horrible regime but at the same it’s exactly what you say it is, a symbol

2 Likes
7

And I think it will be exploited by the far-right and therefore missused (making it higly illegal depending on the country you are in) and not used for historical reasons.
Especially for a game, where 12 y.o. are allowed to play, such exploits quickly can induce significant issues and in the extreme case death. So I would be very cautious with such symbols.
Remember that such things are already done to symbols in game, advocating for doing things like warcrimes and worse.

8

The thing is, it is totally about how a symbol is used.
If you use a symbol to unify people etc it is great, but if you use it to share hate or worse, it is clearly not fine.
Yes, it is just a symbol, but also everything else is just an object, but if used as a weapon it is a weapon and you get charged for it accordingly (German law).
It is totally about the usage of a thing, that exists or existed.
Noone remembers some painting a random person did 200 years ago, but most people have heard of the Mona Lisa.
And both are paintings. One being a symbol for lots of things and therefore target of attaks, and the other was long forgotten.
There is a difference between the Union Jack as a symbol for a united Britan, or the unified past, and using it as an symbol of oppression regarding indiginous people.

It is always a scale and treating everything, like there is no difference, is faulty.

9

Uh. Dude there’s a difference.

The Swastika that F-Artist Man used angled and flipped it. He changed the original meaning for the Europeans however it did not have much of an effect on the other variants. Including the Finnish one.
Cause the Swastika is still used in Asia. It’s just that specific one is not.

3 Likes
10

Imho you underestimate the power of symbols. And it is not really about oppressive regimes - the banning of the swastika refers to the connected ideology and the connected victim narratives.

Hoping that something like the swastika would fade into history is not considering that a large part of the ruling class in politics, finance, media and entertainment almost all over the world has not the slightest interest in allowing this - as this is not only part of a certain victim narrative, it is also part of their way to justify own actions with questionable methods. It is always easy to claim to be the good guy If you can put fingers on “real” bad guys.

So by repeating for ~90 years in infinite loops that this specific symbol is a sign of pure evil - it fulfills several purposes: It can be used everywhere as killer argument to end conversations - and to declare yourself as person with superior moral standards if you are able to connect deviating opinions with this ideology - and you don’t have to deal with arguments anymore.

Alone these two benefits will prevent hat the swastika ban will fade away.

3 Likes
11

Not related but there’s a reason why people try to teach history to people as much as possible so that it is not repeated. Cause knowledge is power. However since History is slowly being taught in smaller quantities, it is leading to people becoming dumb and dumber. In certain places which has lead to very very dumb ideas that totally didn’t happen in history already but is inverted.

1 Like
12

Hi, people who voted on the poll. I changed the second one because it was supposed to be multiple choice but I accidentally made it wrong, so I had to remake it into a separate third one. I will probably either delete or close the original not-multiple choice one.

13

Lol, I’m a history major, and all my history profs have complained in some way about how no one knows history anymore.

Discussion of the Swastika, and any suggestions around it always devolves in some way to a political discussion. Whether it be about “totalitarian symbols” in general (ie hammer and sickle, the fasces, Imperial Japan ensign, check the old forum discussion on this exact topic), or about the meaning and powers of symbols.

Anyhow I think we should instead focus on the actual aesthetics of this censored design instead of the classic ideology and symbolism talk. As I said earlier I think it looks stupid as the large hole in the centre makes it obvious it’s an “incomplete” symbol. Whoever came up with the design should be failed from art school. The + and X have been used for a long time as a censored swastika and work perfectly fine, so I don’t see why we should switch to this. Why was it even invented in the first place? Because the + and X could be mistaken for something not a swastika?

4 Likes
14

The Imperial Japanese Naval Flag has a long history. Most are forgotten unless you’re in Japan.
The Swastika is an Asian Religious Symbol. However, that specific one was made with evil intentions. However, the Asian Religious part of the Swastika was forgotten about.

I can tolerate seeing, seeing it myself but some people are too much of a brick wall and in denial to accept that it exists. History should be remembered with neutrality. Acknowledged that and excuse my French shit has happened.

Whenever it was good or bad. However, this should not determine a symbol over a few years to the hundreds of years of its existence. The majority outweighs the minor. However, in this specific case, keeping it censored is the best way to approach it.

If people want to snap the evil swastika aka the failed artist. Then so be it, let them get banned for stupidity.

18

I don’t think this suggestion is coming from a bad place but I’m sure you can figure out how easy it would be for bad actors to slap Swastikas on everything with this. So I can’t really support it in good faith.

2 Likes
20

The only way I can see this even being added is at best shoved behind an enabled option where it doesn’t show at all. It would be a good compromise however I also agree, can’t support it either. Even as a person who loves history.

2 Likes
22

I understand that this is a topic which can never truly be solved one way or the other, I just wanted to put my opinion out there. At the end of the day, it is up to the devs to decide how to handle it.

2 Likes
27

Hakenkreuz not Haukenkruz

46

I should also put the reminder that this suggestion is just about replacing one style of censoring for another, the thesis of the suggestion is “this style of censored swastika is better than the ones in-game”. I disagreed, and offered my reasoning why (which funnily enough is the same as OP’s, “this style looks better”).

As we’ve all totally read the terms and conditions of this forum:

2.11. No politics

It took us 4 replies until the discussion became political lmao. It’s not even about “swastika censorship”, it’s just political talk like you see on Reddit (and I’m sure no one here wants to be a Redditor).

1 Like
47

Agreed.