No it can’t, you must be thinking of A1 and IP, everything after that (A1HC/A2/AIM) uses further upgraded armour and the turret cheeks will block most APFSDS in the game.
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Their LFPs are more attractive targets because the massive carousel behind them. Did you forget that? It’s not about the plate itself, its about whats behind it.
T-90M?
Issue of skill, not issue of tank.
How so?
Dont most russian tanks suffer from this?
M829A2 is the 3rd highest pen round, and even then at 3rd place it still is only 18m more than M338, and 14mm more than the type 10 round. Also it matters not if the round would make a difference or not but its been said that both the DM53 and the m829a3s anti era tips have defeated even the Relict ERA from the Ruskies. Which honestly wouldn’t be to bad of an addition since they have the smallest pen areas minus the leo2a7/strvs.
Not to mention the M1A1 AIM never had DU in the turret makes this whole argument null and void, its an Aussie Abrams therefore export IE no DU, and the fact that 5 prototypes exist with DU in the hull, and not to mention the SEPV2s improved torsion bars(huh wonder what that’s for), but I digress.
The fact that their is not different armor values period from the M1A1-M1A2SEPV2 in game is embarrassing and a lack of foresight.
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this is the biggest problem with neckbeards in warthunder. Armor apparently never advances nor does rounds with new technology being discovered. almost like they can fit more mass in those spaces after 30 years but hey whatever
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Nah bro, the M1 abrams went from 57 tons to 66.1 simply because the crew ate too many burgers. Gaijin is clearly right /s
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460 @50°
‘‘T-80BVM vs M1 Abrams (10.3) is issue of skill, not issue of tank’’
I too can play that game.
T-80BVM has good mobility, much improved gun handling, better survivability and better reload rate.
The T-80B at 10.3 is a better vehicle than the T-90A at 10.7 simply because of it’s massive mobility advantage as well.
I explain it in the same comment.
Source?
I am not sure what your point is.
Those M1’s were of the M1A1 variety, I’d guess M1A1 HA’s. How does that help the M1A2 SEP or M1A2 SEP v2 that we have in-game?
Source?
Like I’ve said a million times:
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Firstly, there were armour improvements, namely in regards to the turret side protection versus shaped charge threats, additions of IED protection such as the belly plate, changes to crew seating, external improvements such as ARAT, various protective elements for the crew, survivability improvements in regards to the hatches. fire extinguishers, etc. etc.
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Secondly, the above changes are all mentioned in primary source U.S. documents, yet the kinds of upgrades you’re looking for mysteriously aren’t mentioned untill the SEP v3. If you believe the armour underwent upgrades, feel free to prove it.
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Thirdly, M1A1 - M1A2 already saw a massive upgrade from the turret being 400mm @ 60° to 600mm @ 60°.
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Fourthly, there’s countless reasons why the base armour likely wasn’t changed significantly during this period, and I’ve already linked multiple sources that explain why, including:
1. Fall of the Soviet union led to reduced urgency to upgrade. The M1A2 wasn’t even expected to serve past 2010.
2. Budgetary concerns and limitations led to the cancellation of upgrade programs.
3. Weight restrictions led to numerous upgrades not being carried out at all, or untill significant weight reductions had been achieved.
4. The armour was sufficient against the ammunition the Soviet Union possessed in quanities at that time. Remember that 3BM-60 wasn’t common for decades to come.
And lastly, you people are obsessed with thinking in terms of video game stats, with an unhealthy focus around armour.
Real life isn’t about sheer armour protection, it doesn’t even play a primary role in the survivability onion. Target acquisition, battle management systems, fire control systems, tactical mobility and strategic mobility, these things are what makes the M1A2 stand out as being excellent.
If the M1A2 SEP v3 gets introduced with the same armour protection, then you’ll see me on your side. At least for that variant there’s concrete evidence that it features improved turret and hull protection.
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I don’t like to use British estimates for US tanks.
Similarly, I don’t like to use US estimations for British tanks, or Russian estimations for German tanks.
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And we can quantify the weight increases in-game almost perfectly.
The regular M1 Abrams weighs 55.7 tons. The M1A1 gets a larger 120mm gun and a slight turret upgrade from ~390mm to ~450mm. At 57.2 tons. A 1.5 ton increase for a fairly substantial amount - even unrealistic, really.
The M1A1 HC gets DU in the turret, increasing the 450mm effectiveness all the way up to 675mm at 61.2 tons. A mere 4 ton increase for over 200mm of KE protection. Do keep in mind that the Ariete WAR kit is 5 tons in-game, designed to defeat APFSDS, and is currently ~20mm effective.
Then the M1A2 receives various minor upgrades, a better thermal system, and an APU. Which puts it at 62 tons exactly, which is very believable. The APU is meant to provide power even if the engine isn’t running and producing electricity through the alternator, so this should be modeled in-game to not slow down the turret rotation even if the engine is off.
The M1A2 SEP only weighs 200 kilograms more at 62.2 tons, which can be attributed to anything minor. And the SEP V2 weighs 66.1 tons, 3.9 tons more because it gets the entire TUSK kit covering the whole sides of the turret and hull, along with a big CROWS system on the top of the turret?
Basically - a CHILD looking at the Abrams in-game could EASILY, LOGICALLY deduce that the armor has both been added, and that the increased weight has been modeled.
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Considering what we know of BRAT Tiles, it’s probably somewhat underperforming.
The the ability to swap them out for the Alternate Mk.19 or FGM-148 configuration for them would be nice, and make them slightly more relevant for the appropriate M1 variants since MG’s aren’t really within scope of WT since Infantry have yet to be implemented.
Well, I’m entirely talking about the weight.
The effectiveness and possible configurations/etc, I don’t know, I’m not focused on that.
I just want to say that the weight is very clear in-game, yet there have been many, many delusional US mains implying that the weight “came out of nowhere”.
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It sort of did in a sense, due to either the intervening variants not being implemented or that the changed / added systems responsible for the weight increase don’t make noticeable / positive net contributions to game play.
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In every sort of sense, other than the objective sense…
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Like the extra power systems that dont allow the abrams to turn its engine off much longer
That’s the case for plenty of tanks and not just American ones, the T-90M and Leopard 2A7V should also have that feature.
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Does that mean its okay for armor to be unrealistically modeled? What are you talking about.
Bullshit, you deny the literal evidence you were nice enough to provide us with anyway lmao. I’ve never seen someone read “has improved frontal and turret side armor” and think “must mean turret front only”. You’re full of shit.
The M1 abrams has had many upgrades. this includes armor, power, electical systems, you name it. However, the weight of all of it is included, while the other features dont matter in war thunder, and the armor isn’t modeled. Thats my problem.
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Given that you neglected to reply any further to my last comment in that topic, I take it you couldn’t come up with anything to counter what I said.
I already debunked that in that reply which you conveniently stopped responding to. Just go back to that reply there as I thoroughly debunk this statement.
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I think we have two different definitions of debunking lmao
I just cant see how you manage to turn on your computer, tbh
Theres no point debating with you when you bring up sources then make contradictory points as if they mean anything tbh. Im just not really seeing a point to continue to try and debate you on the armor topic when you literally see evidence right in front of your face and you decide to twist the words that you read on the page yourself lol.
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