Why do we actually have a Conquest mode in ground battles?

Gaijin wants to make the game as arcade as possible. This seems like it wouldn’t make sense as they have a game mode specifically titled “Arcade Battles”. The thing is no one plays this game mode. Thus we’re left with Gaijin over correcting all game design to produce as equal gameplay to “Arcade Battles” except inside “Realistic Battles”.

This includes but is not limited to:

  1. Reducing map size

  2. Removing map positions which reward tactical advantage

  3. Adjusting map pathing so players are funneled inside of straight head on channels

A great example of this can be found here:

You can not move around the mountain making the only areas of which to play the trench or the open middle. That is unless of course you go to the far left side of the map which is also flat although I’m pretty sure there’s a red zone there stopping you from accessing columns 1 / 2 / B / C.

2 Likes

I agree, conquest generally sucks. It seems to reward teams who can use aircraft effectively, mind you.

I don’t like the new restrictions in Carpathia too.

1 Like

That’s not true. Gaijin wants to make people move towards RB more, otherwise they would promote AB more. They want to differentiate the game from World of Tanks which is really arcade’y, so they don’t want to promote the game with videos showing markers on top of “realistic” graphics. The selling point of the game is the realistic damage mechanic and it needs to go in pair with the way it is promoted through content creators.

You can check through replays that there are more arcade matches than realistic matches in ground battles, while they last roughly the same. The playerbase is probably the same between realistic and arcade ground battle players, it’s just that arcade players are not coming to the community if their mode is not represented by content creators and there’s always this kind of reaction from the side of realistic players towards arcade players. Which overall is gaijin’s fault for the whole situation, but it doesn’t mean “nobody plays arcade”.

Good arguments for a different thesis, which is that gaijin wants the matches to be over quicker rather than wants the game to be more arcade’y. They want to finish the game quicker (by average, meaning ensure more games finish within their specified time frame) so players land more often into the same matchmaking windows while also this makes that boosters are limited value because it’s harder to stretch out the game for longer and if overall the games are shorter and people sit in queues longer proportionally to the game time, it means the load on the servers is lower, so the whole operation saves money, while also it gets more addictive if you have those short matches that are “bite sized”. It’s like deciding between a 3h move or 4 x 45 minute episode show.

How have they done this?

Your definition of arcadey is limited to UI styling. I take game mechanics in to account.

Arcade / Realistic / Simulator all share the same damage models.

What is changed is ballistics, vehicle performance (engine power / gun handling), and markers for the enemy.

Realistic still sports multiple ways to mark your enemy, we even have a minimap that shows enemy locations.

Arcade is the favored mode by the majority, not RB. This is true for both Ground, Air, and Naval. They don’t care what game mode you play, and Arcade players are more inclined to get premiums and such because the grind is worse in every game mode for Arcade. Arcade is the average persons enjoyable gamemode, Realistic is the more (but not at all true to life) realistic representation of the vehicles. Favored by those interested in the vehicles and more in depth gameplay.

I was talking about the promotion aspect of the videos, but I didn’t expect you to get that, so that’s okay…

I was talking about comparison to world of tanks, but again, I wasn’t expecting you to get that, so that’s also okay.

That’s correct, I just said that gaijin promotes RB more through support of RB-oriented content creators.

That’s most likely not true. If you reach a certain point of being skillful in the game, you start seeing more clearly the mechanics and you may get bored of it. Arcade let’s you do that earlier, and that’s why for general audience it’s better to let them spend some amount of time in arcade and figure out a way to push them towards realistic mode.

As for the research ratios - are they that different though when normalized to amount of time spent in game? If it’s 2x more XP/SL or so per kill in RB but you kill 2x times more often in arcade? Especially for air it’s true that you just can throw more planes in the match in arcade.

Comparisons to World of Tanks relate around the damage model as both games are equivalent otherwise, you have almost duplicate game modes. The difference is World of Tank’s styling which isn’t relevant to gameplay mechanics and how it renders damage. In World of Tanks it does have modules which are damaged but overall the vehicle is rendered to have “health” which is slowly reduced to zero, where as in War Thunder the death mechanic is tied to crew members directly (world of tanks still has this as well but you have tools to revive them).

Very similar games, but damage modeling is the key difference. Damage modeling is carried the same through all of War Thunder’s game modes, so it is not a good judging factor for Gaijin’s preferences between modes.

What you view as a main element of a promotional video is highly subjective. It is not a logical counter point to mention your personal interpretation of social media content.

That isn’t true. Arcade allows you to take advantage of mechanics and perform better. Arcade is actually the more skilled gamemode because you need to be extremely aware and have better reaction time than your enemy. Realistic modes don’t need nearly as quick of a reaction time as you can hide and ambush much easier instead of having more forced long ranged enagagements because you can detect enemy tanks faster and easier. Realistic is a much more boring game mode than Arcade because it is usually slowed down to a crawl because everyone is so cautious. Arcade is the more popular game mode for a reason, that reason is the ease of accessability and fast, exciting pace.

Also, if Realistic is the Primary mode, explain to me why it gets such abysmal crew experience when compared to arcade. Also, it is easier to enjoy all aspects of gameplay in Arcade. You don’t need to dual research air trees in order to use aircraft, clutter a lineup with unneeded vehicles, or research aircraft modifications to make those aircraft viable. SPAA are easier to use and enjoy, everything isn’t slowed down to a crawl, and vehicles that struggle infinitely in RB have a chance to shine in AB.

AAB and ARB aren’t comparable in terms of RP gains because RB doesn’t have respawns and can generate much, much higher rewards, in some cases more than Sim in comparable timeframes. I have never heard of anyone getting 70k RP (which I have personally done in a single match of Air RB with my talismaned F-105D and a 200 percent booster). I don’t believe that is possible at all in AAB.

GAB and GRB are pretty close to each other, but I don’t know the exact numbers of rewards for either because most RP is gained by time played so making a solid comparison is quite difficult if the same amount of kills/crits/caps aren’t done in the same amount of time. I believe the SL/RP modifiers are quite close though.

This is a weird claim to me because a majority of players that are truly interested in the game and the vehicles within seem to be RB players to begin with. I feel the average player (from arcade because it is the most popular mode) doesn’t get nearly indepth about vehicles, game changes, and tactics as much as RB players. Cotent creators are going to target players that are more interested in the information they are providing, and RB players are much more interested in how they can eek out an advantage orwhy their vehicle will be performing slightly worse next update. Those content creators probably also play RB because they are much more interested in those specifics than the average player. True vehicle enthusiasts are going to eminate toward RB while the average player that is after a mostly enjoyable vehicle combat game is going to gravitate toward Arcade, the more exciting and fun mode.

1 Like

I don’t even know what are you responding to here. I said that arcade shows the mechanics more clearly and thus for an average user that started with arcade, because it’s easier to start with of course, it can get boring if he doesn’t progress to something different. F2P/GaaS games work this way that they push players towards something different and that’s why we have different modes, planes, tanks, navy, some custom modes etc. But arcade is a place where once you start seeing how it works, you either get more and more efficient and it’s fun for you, or you get burned out and you drop out. We, the ones that are vocal here, are probably mostly getting more and more skilled in arcade, while for every one of us there’s probably dozens of players that can’t keep up and burn out and leave. That’s why something like RB is better from the perspective of the developer because it obfuscates the reasons for winning or loosing and gives more hope that next time you’ll be on top.

Well, yeah, match to match you’ll roughly get the same amount unless you’re really really good in RB where you can use more vehicles. But average player with K:D 1.0 will probably score roughly the same in both modes.

That’s not the reason here. Simply gaijin doesn’t accept arcade-focused youtubers into partnership program, if I remember it correctly, one of our local youtuber gave up because of that, and if you look for war thunder arcade, you won’t see any big channels there. And the reason that the arcade channels aren’t growing is that without constant feed of source for content that is interesting to the players, like new or premium vehicles, you can only do the same things as every other player can do. RB content creators get early access to the vehicles from time to time and get gold to spend to buy and show premium vehicles which is base for making content about things that not every player can easily access.

sweet summer child… the point is not that you see the hud and markers themselves, but that when you don’t see them, don’t have the information about it, the videos are more entertaining because of uncertainty. That’s why battle royale games are “highly twitchable”, because you don’t see whole situation on the battlefield and there are high stakes there. The arcade mode is less tense from the perspective of the viewer if you can see all the time where the front line is an have enemies marked in front. And also, again, the games do sell by graphics and the less cluttered and more “movie like” game is, the better for a newcomer. Inversely - greet newcomer with a lot of unknown UI/HUD, and he may bounce from it because of being scared of too much stuff to learn. There are many layers of psychology tricks in all those marketing strategies.