Let me use every single British tank with APDS as a SPAAG.
Unless a shell has 8-10 inches of penetration, it won’t be going through concrete. And even if it does somehow make it through, the round will have wasted most of its effective penetration potential on the concrete wall.
I think the Kv-2 does, or it used to at some point.
The ADATS was designed ~15 years before M919 was introduced.
As for the stabilizer…
The ADATS never had stabilization. Period.
If you want one that would legitimately be good, the M1 AGDS was supposed to get x2 35mm Bushmasters with x6 of the same MIM-146s that the ADATS gets.
So are your claims and baseless requests. They’re seemingly arbitrary.
We have the base VADS, not the PIVADS.
Israel could get APDS though.
It isn’t, the main ammunition IRL for the Gepard is AHEAD or FAP/FAPDS.
The existence of FAPDS on the Gepard also disproves his
point.
As well as the Russian lineage of 30mm, French 30mm, and the Swedish Bofors for both naval and land use.
That 20mm APDS is also what was used on later VADS systems.
In that case it’s the only AP round the KV-2 would have access to.
It quite literally uses a naval cannon. The sole purpose of it was to penetrate armor of the '20s and '30s cruisers of the era, which mainly used cemented armor.
They aren’t concrete piercing shells, they’re still armor piercing high explosive units made to penetrate and destroy armored targets.
yeah sorry , you lost all believability
the gepard 1a2, in general no gepard ever used AHEAD actively, they lack the programming coils they cant actualy shoot them and let them explode
FAPDS in fact counts as as an AP ammunition type, it only does pure kinetic damage as well
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Do the Gepards in warthunder not have the automatic ajustment thing?
Because they aren’t in-game.
With… 2.1 seconds of fire time in its only good anti-tank round.
To put that in perspective… The AMX A-11 with its laughably small ammo pool has twice the fire time… with a 6000rpm cannon.
That’s why they are 2 different rounds.
He isn’t using GD as a source, he’s simply linking and mentioning the existence of one of their cartridges… ONE THAT YOU MENTIONED YOURSELF
The KV2
Shrapnel shells may be good but they are not “necessary” for Russian tanks.
I know it wasn’t my brightest moment but I mostly wanted to show him that not all the shells carried by the tanks are necessary in the game but that if they were carried then they have their place in the game.
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and here the definition of rheinmetall literaly stating FAPDS purpos is dual type for anti air and hard targets
in fact gajin refuses to add the FAPDS because of balancing purposes because gepard 1a2 would get full belts of those
https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/products/medium-calibre/medium-calibre-ammunition
Already been answered there by Ion
Neither are HE shells, HESH, HEAT, HEATFS, ATGs, or HEGMs…
Yet they have a VERY crucial purpose.
Which has… What to do with the KV-2?
Nobody has made a suggestion to add FAPDS to the 35mm.
Love how GD is apparently an abhorrent source, but a dying bankrupt company making “next generation” tanks off of 1980s platforms is better.
that ones on me, answered to the wrong one
wanted to extent here that FAPDS is an AP ammunition and the main ammunition of the gepard 1a2
there was, and official statement of smins as well that it wasnt added because of balance purposes
that thing happened in the old forums and is still open report so to say.
sadly they deleted the old forum now and the i cant find the quote
but the tech mod @WaretaGarasu should remember, i did show him the quote recently i just cant find it anymore…
no idea what that is about, but i would be careful what you say there. Specialy when you are lying as well. KF51s is getting new hulls developed as well. And rheinmetall is developing europeans next anti air system for most countries which is relevant here.
Rheinmetall is far from bankrupt.
No need to get salty cause GE has nothing noteworthy to show of lately
Understandable, I was pretty confused as to where that reply was directed.
Which wouldn’t be an issue at 9.7, or even 10.0/10.3 now that plenty of vehicles were moved up.
At 8.3…? Absolutely not.
Smin isn’t a developer, nor is he responsible for forwarding suggestions. You give suggestions to technical moderators and they alone respond to them.
Unless it’s an issue report in the forums… In which he typically explains that it isn’t a bug, it should be posted on the actual issues website, or that it has been forwarded directly to developers.
His words, verbatim:
The KF51 was built off a 2A4’s chassis, and has remained as such for the decade that it has existed.
There is absolutely nothing stating that there is a new hull in the works for the KF51, as it is entirely designed to be an upgrade for existing Leopard 2s, primarily exports.
You mean the Skyranger? The modular weapon system designed to be used on another company’s vehicle?
Rheinmetall is at HEAVY risk of bankruptcy. 51% of their income is from shares, only yielding a 0.07% profit margin.
They’re currently $520M in debt and barely scraping by with a $291k income per year. They still have close to $5.6B in contracts to uphold… Hell, their z-score has inflated egregiously in the last 4 years on top of that.
the standard gepard at 8,3 is physicaly unable to shoot fapds either way
its specialy done for the gepard1a2, still gajin doesnt like it
the old forums had other ways to report bugs, suggestions etc
the fapds was included in it and they did acknowledge it and aware of it
first should clarifiy , the current KF51 is never meaned as a complete new gen tank. Its more of an interim to until the MGS, furthermore even with a leo 2a4 chassis a lot can be done.
Just look at the leo 2 arc 3.0 where the 2a4 chassis is modified for a completly enclosed safety bubble for the crew and be unmanned in the turret.
It is the same for the KF51, the chassis is being modernised in the case of the KF51 a modified Büffel chassis.
And thats not mentioning how rheinmetall is working on completly new chassius as well-
as of now the leopard chassis is still one of the best ones in the world.
yes an upgrade but not necesarily a completly new gen one
and? where is the problem with that, thats a completly valid thing as well. its still hugely succesful
same as everyone and their mother using rheinmetall cannons or licensed versions of it
not that knowledgable in that area, but highly doubt it, one of the reasons for low profit is a lot going straight into development / a lot of open projects new fabrics being built etc
Agreed, though Gaijin has never made a statement on the addition of FAPDS.
And again, I’ve already given you quotes from Smin from the old forum’s suggestions. Not a single negative comment towards it, nor preventing it from reaching developers.
A lot can be done with the 2A4 chassis, but that’s irrelevant to the point that RhMB does not have the funding nor support to pursue new designs or projects. GmbH has overtaken that in its entirety, specifically due to RhmB’s insanely poor financial situation in the mid '20th century. Now KNDS is the frontrunner.
The Leo 2 ARC 3.0 isn’t an RhmB venture, that’s purely KNDS. Between GmbH and Nexter, Rheinmetall has no hand in this.
I can’t help but think that such drastic changes couldn’t be made with RhmB behind the wheel, especially with the technology needed to convert an old platform into a remote turret MBT.
What modernizations are being done to the KF51 that represent any tangible improvement?
Ah yes, RhmB being relegated the inexpensive and hilariously cheap upgrade of BPz 3s… I’m sure it means a lot that they’re simply upgrading electronic systems on a 32 year old recovery vehicle.
Again, what new chassis?
On what basis? It’s incapable of mounting the latest GmbH-MB engine systems without MAJOR reconstruction that’s detrimental to the vehicle, as well as an armor array that banks on composites that are quickly becoming negated.
Yeah right…
the first picture literaly said they didnt do it for balancing reasons
an example from me what can be done with a leopard chassis, never claimed rheinmetall was part of it
the büffel is an already modified leopard chassis, u are aware of that right? it is easiyl further modified, thats why my example of the leo 2 arc3.0, they are doing more then electronics
which is being done to the 2a8 partialy, so not sure what u want
we both know thats marketing overdoing.
The KF51 is meaned as a 4th gen mbt. With the APS system as well as the 130mm which they propably meaned in this advertisment
MGCS aims at 5th gen i would say
“They can sometimes be added later if required for balancing. Currently its intended for this vehicle to not have FAPDS.”
2 years ago.
F-16s weren’t in the game, MiG-29s weren’t in the game, based model Su-25s had only been added 2 months prior… Even then they lacked the capability to engage beyond 3-4km.
You responded to my statement on Rheinmetall by deflecting to the KF51. It’s objectively horrible and a massive tell as to how disconnected from reality German bureaucrats are.
Are you saying you’re steering the conversation off-topic?
Yes, and it was modified during a time that Rheinmetall was somewhat successful. Now it isn’t, and the most they can manage is making minor support equipment and converting Nexter battlefield management systems to their own.
The Leopard 2A8 still uses the 873. No powerplant changes are being incorporated even when there are more reliable and powerful packages.
KMW upgrades Leopards with APS, RhmB does not.
KDA produces the Protector, RhmB does not.
Can you tell me what involvement RhmB has in the 2A8? Last I checked the only thing they’ve done to the Leopard in prior history was equip 2A6M 2s and 2A7s with their ACM systems, though had nothing to do with the Rh120’s DSM… the primary upgrade of the FCS.
I know for a fact it’s Rheinmetall’s words from their CEO, who is about as trustworthy as an American Democrat speaking economy.
Again, it’s even more reason to trust Rheinmetall less than GD.
Another KND project! Fun!
What does this do for your argument?
It’s 40 rounds of APDS…
If SPAAs become immune to all ground munitions then I can see removing all non air rounds for SPAAs(or maybe if all players collective agree to stop shooting SPAAs)
Until then, they have to be able to defend themselves.
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