When is Gaijin going to make win loss data publicly available?

Besides “FOTM” which may or may not increase, what are the ramifications as you say?

Did you not play during the release of the Vidar? The 2S38? The Type 90?

I’m so confused by some of the statements by people in this thread they legitimately seem to not play the game at all.

They don’t because once people actually have conclusive data on what the best performing vehicles are, everyone will flock to them. Sure, you can say people already do, but the only people here to confirm that are people on the forums and Reddit which, in the grand scheme of things, is the vocal minority, not the majority. Much of the silent majority is not lurking to see possible stats, but if that info is public, they’ll end up seeing it anyway.

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This information is already available for those who wish to engage with it, it just isn’t official. This line of thought ignores this fact.

No it is not. Thunderskill is extremely incomplete in its data. That is not a record of every player. It’s not useless by any measure, but it is very incomplete.

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It would objectively be the best move for balance (Assuming they’d actually listen to the community), but that’s assuming perfect balance is the utmost of Gaijin’s goals for the game.

That’s not even a cynical dig at Gaijin, they’re a free to play economy that relies on frustration and inbalance to sell premium time and premium vehicles. It’s literally against their best interest (In their view, anyways) to make a game that’s perfectly satisfying and balanced to play.

Revealing this data publically would allow players to prove all the inbalances they’ve built into the game, rather than just speculate about them, which is going to result in more toxicity. For instance, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Air RB grind hit a wall at 9.3 for pretty much all nations, which in turn massively incentivises getting a premium aircraft to bypass that grind.

They also can’t just point at an arbitrary vehicle and say “Stats says this has to move up” when we can double check their work.

Regardless, the idea of releasing this data to the players also only makes sense if they intended on listening to player feedback. Which Gaijin has proven very unwilling to do except under extreme duress.

People do that anyways. Players find overperforming vehicles and stick with them, they tell their friends, Youtubers cover them, and more and more people use them. If there’s a legitimately overpowered vehicle, you can be sure it won’t stay unknown for long.

Also, I feel the need to point out the solution to an overperforming tank is to rebalance it so that it no longer overperforms, rather than just hiding that information and hoping no-one realizes.

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“extremely incomplete data” yet still a subset.

Which is irrelevant as it is still a large statistical sample and can be used as a general judge of performance.

10,000+ matches is more than enough to make an inference.

I’ll concede you that point. You are correct there.

I don’t personally claim thunderskill as “fact”, as it isn’t. It is the best tool we have. I wish Gaijin would provide official statistics so we didn’t have to rely on third party information. The best reasoning provided for why they can’t other than “they don’t have to” has been “FOTM”.

I still hold that “FOTM” occurs already and is encouraged by Gaijin. Any increase would be marginal and would only to help to provide more data on a vehicle’s performance.

If 50,000 more people buy the 292 so what? It’s money for Gaijin. As with all games which offer win statistics people will play what is enjoyable, not simply what is “meta”. War Thunder especially is immune to this as there is no “competitiveness” in the game’s function. We play to play specific enjoyable vehicles and to grind and unlock new interesting vehicles. I love the Sherman tank, that doesn’t mean I’m going to play it for 10,000 battles. I want to play and try new things in War Thunder’s gaming environment.

Sarcasm :P I know, but… yeah…

^ Exactly…

They say a picture is worth a thousands words…

And thats right… although, it is technically based off of both feedback from the community and the database / statistics, but otherwise the Devs have stated before in the past that it is not something they would share with the community

And as someone else mentioned before… it is their Intellectual property too…

Issue is that “Other Games” could use that data for their own benefit and profit from it…

Otherwise… Devs would be willing to share such data… but the main problems summarized are “community game play behavior and other issues can’t be fully predicted what would happen” and “Intellectual property”… and maybe a few other reasons…

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And thats true… can and has happened before…

However, difference is… it is not hard reliable data from Gaijin… so, you could kinda say such data is from a unreliable witness so to speak… so, not everyone is going to go for it… and that dream does not tend to live long, since as you said yourself…

“they tell their friends, Youtubers cover them, and more and more people use them.”

And that tends to be how FOTMs die off because Developers have caught wind of it ^^

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Why would they not be able to “catch wind” of “FOTM” when it occurs due to their own statistics?

probably because its really not that big a deal at the time, the Devs are always watching the data but they also watch all of the feedback too, and “FOTM” is just that… they tend to not last very long on their own

So… I assume… If they start to see things starting to get out of hand, they will “balance” things at that point

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When there’s no such thing as nation v nation matchmaking.
Win rate data should be confidential until there’s only mixed match making.

The fact you claim competence is incompetent is opposite world nonsense.
The fact Gaijin is keeping it secret is the definition of competence.

I presume you state this as you want to avoid having to face the same exact nation? This already occurs at top tier where specific vehicles are more popular than others.

Not sure why you want only mixed matches permanently.

@Apollo_1641

Correction, Gaijin will never release this information as it isn’t in the interest of BOTH players and the company equally.
Players want it secret so they can keep nation v nation matches.
Gaijin wants it secret so they don’t have to face the backlash of having only mixed matches.

Win rate has nothing to do with vehicles being OP or not, it’s about how skilled teams are being.
Everyone bringing up vehicles is missing the point of this topic.
People won’t flock to specific vehicles, they will flock to specific TECH TREES as that’s where the skilled players are, UNLESS there’s only mixed match making.

This is why you can either have nation v nation matches, OR open data. You cannot have both; you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

False. If you ever learn about balancing and stats, you’ll regret posting that.
Jagdpanzer IV is the most OP vehicle in the game, and clearly tankers are performing badly in it.

@Miragen
Yet 99% of premiums ever added to War Thunder were brought at or above their proper BR, debunking that off-topic conspiracy theory.

@Vamilad
Mixed matches have nothing to do with vehicle popularity.
Mixed matches are a BACKUP system in place that triggers on one of two events: 5 minutes of queue time, OR enough players playing 1 tech tree during a time period to trigger a mixed match.

I do not agree with the sentiment that nation v nation would cease to exist due to the public release of win rates. War Thunder has many vehicles there is no one specific playstyle which attracts all players. Assuming that the “best” vehicle will have the “most” players is illogical. We can see this in the playerbase of Sweden / Germany being outnumbered by the US / Russia still despite their increasing win rates.

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Then War Thunder dies, Gaijin goes bankrupt, and you never get to play the game again.
You either keep the data secret, or you get only mixed matches.
Cause open data without mixed matches = long queue times, and people flocking to tech trees; a toxic behavior that needs to be prevented at all costs in order for War Thunder’s playerbase to never be as toxic as League’s.

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Low tier Germany has a high playerbase because German WW2 vehicles are very popular. Inversely US / Russia top tier have very popular vehicles that people wish to play. Why isn’t Germany / Sweden the two most played nations at this BR range instead of the US / Russia who sport extremely poor win rates?

(^^ With context of this quote:

)

These two quotes directly contradict each other. Would having the statistics available to the players create FOTM issues, or do FOTM issues not matter on the grand scheme of things (/neu)?