VK 36.01 (H) The Tiger I father

[_PabloSniper]

Hello everyone!
Since the suggestions tab is currently closed.
And we were suggested to create a backup of our suggestions.
Here’s mine!
Well, I created this topic, to pass on all known data on the VK 36.01 (H)

VK 36.01 chassis

As well as a couple of the turrets, never to be actually fitted to their hulls:

Undoing a myth, the VK36.01 never had plans to install the 88mm KwK36 weapon.
The weapon options were. 10.5cm

source:Germany’s Tiger Tanks D.W. to Tiger I, Design, Production & Modifications, Thomas L. Jentz, Hilary L. Doyle

perspective

and Waffe 0725


source:Germany’s Tiger Tanks D.W. to Tiger I, Design, Production & Modifications, Thomas L. Jentz, Hilary L. Doyle

The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, by Chris Bishop, page 185.

+data about VK36.01

on this book

on this

However, Germany had restrictions on the production of tungsten.
And Waffe 0725, which was an adaptation of PaK 41, needed 1kg of tungsten for each shot.

Source: Tank Archives: Devourer of Tungsten

This restriction of Tungsten only left an alternative to the design of the VK36.01
The already tested KwK40 L/48

Perspective: (to the right of the image)

In a way the VK36.01 (when equipped with the KwK40) would be only a KV-1B 756 (r) with better mobility

In short, we have three weapon options to use on this tank.
As here we have no problems with Tungsten, we could have it with Waffe 0725.
Or for the more conservative, we could have a KwK 40.
I just think the 105mm is inadequate for the 5.0

[O_HOgameplay]

My reply about this tank from an other post:

"The VK 3601 with the Waffe 0725 gun would be an absolutely useless tank, due to the gun. Why?

Well, it is a squeeze bore gun, there is already one in the game on a german car. The problem is, that the shell is modelled as APCR.

Now since the last APDS nerf, even APCR started to shatter on everything, and deal absolutley no damage, even if it pens.

To top it all up, Gaijin would implement something like a 6 round ready rack for the tank, and with that 6 round, you might destroy a light tank, and after that, your rate of fire will be horrible, with absolutley no damage.

If gaijin models it as a solidshot, then that tank maybe could be good, since the penetration is close to the Panther’s penetration. But even as solidshot, the damage will be bad at best, so the tank should not have a ready rack (so the reload time does not change depending on the ammo rack location), and a faster reload time, maybe 5s aced, but 6s aced maximum.

The armor would be somewhat OK, but since the side armor is 60mm, you can’t really angle it.
The turret is a Panther-like one, so the mantlet in the middle is ~100mm or so, this means at close range potentially even the american 75mm will pen it, not even talking about the cupola.

So it is a Tiger with everything good taken away from it. Armor, that you can’t angle, no magical inpenetratable mantlet, bad damage.

I would say maybe 4.7. At 5.0, you have the Protopanther, and that is just a better at being a “heavy tank” than the VK 3601."

You have mentioned the 10.5cm and the regular 7.5cm guns.
I would say none of them would make this tank usable.
For my bet, i would say the best option for this is the Waffe gun, but the shell modelled as full calibre solidshot, and the tank could be at 4.7 max. The tank would be bad, but at least usable.

[_PabloSniper]

@O_HOgameplay

My reply about this tank from an other post:

"The VK 3601 with the Waffe 0725 gun would be an absolutely useless tank, due to the gun. Why?

Well, it is a squeeze bore gun, there is already one in the game on a german car. The problem is, that the shell is modelled as APCR.

It really needs to be reviewed.

Four types of ammunition were developed for the 7.5 cm Pak 41

• Pzgr. 41 H.K.: armour piercing tracer ammunition with a tungsten carbide core. Mass 2.58 kg, muzzle velocity 1260 m/s.
• Pzgr. 41 St.: armour piercing tracer ammunition with a steel core. Mass 3.00 kg, muzzle velocity 1170 m/s.
• Pzgr. 41 W.: armour piercing tracer ammunition. Mass 2.48 kg, muzzle velocity 1230 m/s.
• Spgr. 41: high explosive tracer grenade. Mass 2.61 kg, muzzle velocity 900 m/s.

The 7.5 cm Panzerjägerkanone (Pak) 41 was a unique weapon with excellent characteristics that was a threat to both contemporary tanks and post-war vehicles. Only a small number and a lack of tungsten prevented it from showing its full strength. Meanwhile, the appearance of this weapon prompted the USSR to begin working on its own analogues, especially since new types of German tanks were already known, and the performance of the Pak 41 was impressive.

Original article by Vadim Antonov.

But I don’t think the KwK 40 would be a bad option.
So much so that we already have a KV1 with this weapon in 5.0, and it goes well,

[Chris4win]

more squeeze bore guns are always good

[FlipAllTheTables]

@O_HOgameplay

Well, it is a squeeze bore gun, there is already one in the game on a german car. The problem is, that the shell is modelled as APCR.

It… kind of is APCR is it not?
I don’t quite see what’s wrong with that.

[O_HOgameplay]

Because it is not quite APCR, and we all know that APCR sucks in this game.

[FlipAllTheTables]

You haven’t explained why it isn’t. In real life it’s called “APCNR” for “Non-Rigid”, but the functionality is the exact same.

It’s a tungsten carbide core enveloped by a jacket made of a lighter material so as to decrease the overall weight of the projectile, increasing its velocity, and delivering the high density, small caliber tungsten carbide core into the plate of armor at said increased velocity.

[O_HOgameplay]

Yes, i know. But again, the issue is, that in game APCR is absolutely trash. It is also “not APCR”, because after the squeeze bore shell leaves the barrel, it looks like a solidshot, those “sticking out fins” are going to be pressed to the “core”. So it is more aerodynamic, than APCR. It is like APDS.

But if you want to play with ta tank, that is
a, has no armor
b, slow
c, can’t do anything, because it uses a uesless ammo

Then this tank is going to be your favourite.

The other reason is taht, knowing Gaijin, they will go for the APCR anyway.

[Chris4win]

I don’t see the problem? Armor seems to be good and this tank can be balanced with the right br. If the gun is that bad then put it at 4.3 where the armor is great

[O_HOgameplay]

Still does not fixes the problem of the shell.

Also, even at 4.3 that armor is not going to be good

[FlipAllTheTables]

@O_HOgameplay

It is also “not APCR”, because after the squeeze bore shell leaves the barrel, it looks like a solidshot, those “sticking out fins” are going to be pressed to the “core”. So it is more aerodynamic, than APCR. It is like APDS.

Not all APCR is of arrowhead design. Just as an example, here’s the armor piercing ammunition for the 90 mm M3 cannon, M304 APCR, M82 APCBC and T33 APBC, not in that order.

Spoiler

You can probably guess which is which, but the point is that the APCR here is not of arrowhead design.

Even some German APCR rounds, such as the ones on the Kwk42 and 43 (and even the Kwk40 from what I can tell), aren’t of arrowhead design and externally just look like normal AP rounds.

Spoiler

[O_HOgameplay]

It still does not change the fact that it would be unplayable.

Good luck penetrating a T-34, or even a Sherman with APCR.
Even if it pens, the gamage is just awful.

At least advocate for APDS. That thing at least has less speed drop, and has better angle performance, so you will be able to pen angled armor…

[_PabloSniper]

We don’t need to argue about APCR ammo, just request it to be launched with the good old KwK40

[O_HOgameplay]

With that gun, it would be just a slower Panzer 4. It would be better that wth other gun, but again, just play a Panzer 4. it is faster, better armor, and the same gun.

[_PabloSniper]

Slower ? He is sure ?
It is faster and better armored than the PzIV.

And once again I will repeat!
We already have a 5.0 with 100mm of armor using this gun, and it performs well.

Imagine a Tiger I engine, carrying 10 tons less.
This is a VK3601

[O_HOgameplay]

I am in a different discussion about the VK 3001, and i was mistaken, i though i was on that forum.

Yes, you are right.

However, i would like to oint out, that you are talking about a KV-1. That KV-1 is just better armored, than the Tiger 1.

Vith the VK’s armor, the problem is the very weak side, turret, and cupola armor. You can angle a Tiger, but you just can’t angle this VK in way to make the front effective, while the side being effective too.
80mm turret front, with a Panther style mantlet is just bad. It is flat, and the mantlet is effective 70-75mm, since it is probably cast armor, and not a black hole mess, like on the Tiger.
50mm cupola? Yes, soviet 45mm go brrrrrrrrrr.

[_PabloSniper]

@O_HOgameplay

However, i would like to oint out, that you are talking about a KV-1. That KV-1 is just better armored, than the Tiger 1.

Maybe this works fine in 4.7 do you think?

[O_HOgameplay]

i would say 4.3. It would be a good 4.3, and a usable 4.7

[Flak_Dancer]

+1 gib!!!

[FrenchToastIndCo]

I’m not holding my breath, but if the devs took the time to model APCNR correctly I’d be pleasantly surprised. It’d add some spice to the German tech tree instead of your typical ‘APCBC-HE go brrrr’