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You really forget something about Pantsir apart from range there other thing that set apart from other SPAA not autocanon but I want you to tell me.
When CCIP didn’t exist for GBUs, and Harrier still lacked skilled players, ITO-90M protected the skies.
However, when Harrier and of course Mig-27K gained players CAS stopped dying.
F-14B, F-16C, etc all these players all sharing their techniques all before CCIP.
CCIP is added for laser guided bombs that now make the skill required to play CAS effectively nothing, and now everyone has >16km range air to ground munitions… all before Pantsir.
Pantsir gets added but people are prepped, and the only ones that die are those yet to gain the knowledge of how to CAS.
So no, I never saw Pantsir as a threat, I was concerned for about 2 weeks until I trained with my friend, but after over 19 months of zero deaths while running CAS and fighter, I can say the basic knowledge paid off and SPYDER minimum is needed.
We’ve been passed the need of Pantsir equivalents the MOMENT CCIP for guided bombs arrived.
Wow I’m surprise but nope all wrong
Okay one thing that set Pantsir spart from other is Radar
Why? they it has the most advance ground base radar ahead of other SPAA
and what can it do?
if Pantsir players have more than two braincells and know what to do they don’t need to shootdown the jets but the munition that flying toward them make them immune to aircraft (well at least if they know what they’re doing) ITO might be able to intercept one or two in the same direction but Pantsir can do it Mutiple shot and multiple direction thanks to it radar and with ammo box they don’t even need to move to resupply just stay there until some Leopard2 get there and deal with them.
A radar is not what kills aircraft, it has never killed aircraft.
I guarantee I’ve been locked on every time I got in CAS by Pantsirs, and every time their platform disappoints them because a radar doesn’t magically make the missile perform better.
Pantsirs also haven’t intercepted my munitions, partially cause most weren’t aimed at them which makes hitting them almost impossible, and the other factor is I launch from high altitude which makes the munition arc well above 45 degrees to them which itself makes it extremely difficult to find, lock, and hit.
Only low altitude munitions have been shown to be defeated by Pantsirs, which I’ve never done myself cause low altitude is where you’re the least protected as well as your munitions are the least lethal due to low angles.
And if you think it’s to do with their skill [which it’s a hilarious coincidence if a hundred players all share the same alleged skill level], then you can attempt it for yourself.
Either way, War Thunder needs SPAA in all ten tech trees superior to that of Pantsir.
But the thing is , if the CAS player have one brain cell , they could easily work around this. Now i am not saying that Pantsir is weak but it is not as good as people make it out to be. Also if not the CAS can just go for other target, multiple one in multiple direction. There a lot more option for the CAS than whatever the Pantsir got on hand. In this fight the CAS always have the upper hand
while every nation can engage ground targets from beyond 16km with non tracking weapons you dont seem to realize that all the pantsir needs to do is not stay in 1 place for the 40+ seconds it would take for that bomb to get to the target. what makes the AA of every nations worse and the hk38 so strong is very simple and easy to understand if you use for brain a bit.
The pantsir has more range than the tracking seeker of every agm in the game meaning that agm needs to use ground lock or lob bombs or risk being shot down by getting too close, the weapons also travel very slowly, combo that with being lobbed from long range mean you have to be braindead to die to them in the pantsir.
Now lets look at everyone else vs the kh38:
- the kh38 can lock all AA (except the pantsir) in the game from outside of their firing range meaning it has a tracking lock that can not be countered by just moving
- the kh38 is the only one of these weapons that has a speed that high meaning they will also hit you in half the time or less leaving you a much smaller window to intercept
- the kh38 aslo has lofting meaning it can sometimes fly above the radar search zone of the nato AA making it harder to track.
- some AA like the adats dont even have 3rd person lock meaning you have to find and look at the missile directly to hit the projectile (kinda buggy rn btw as so just can lock it sometimes)
So yes NATO cas can kill the pantsir but people seem to disregard the fact that you at least need to try when doing that and it still leaves counterplay on the table for the pantsir in a lot of these situations.
For NATO AA there simple is little to no counterplay to kh38 spam.
You do realize guided weapons can move around, right?
Besides, you don’t target the Pantsir, they’re not a threat to other tanks, you target their team’s tanks, and ignore the SPAA entirely.
Pantsir range is 13 - 14km against jet CAS, which is lower than IR seekers and lasers.
And duh AGM-65D/G, KH-38, and PGM-500-2000/3 are all OP. All out-range Pantsir handedly, and laser GBUs themselves outrange Pantsir.
any weakness the pantisr has every other nation has to deal with but twice as bad, also going for other targets means getting close enough for a tracking lock putting the plane at risk, we all know cas can still kill any AA in the game the point is 1 has a chance and the others dont.
So nerf CAS and give everyone equal SPAA. Nerfing or removing the only decent SPAA is one of the worst thing we could do US/USSR are not the only top tier nation. Italy,France,Uk,… have nothing
incorrect ir seekers only have a tracking lock range of 13-14km vs larger targets like the big boxy AA, ir seekers will pretty much never track an mbt past 12km and most of the time the tacking on mtbs is closer to 10km, secondly your just kinda ignoring the speed gap here mavs and pgms are very slow at a distance and are kinda braindead to intercept and laser gbus can never outrange the pantsir since laser targeting cant go past 20km even if they did the bombs themself dont track till they get withing 4-6km of the map and are very slow and risky to use since you need to maintain lock.
almost no one is asking for the pantsir to be removed just for other nations to have things on par with it, in fact asking for equal SPAA is the entire point of the thread
Pantsir should disappear and SPAA should be reworked - Machinery of War Discussion / Ground Vehicle - War Thunder — official forum
Petition for remove or nerf pantsir s1 - Machinery of War Discussion / Ground Vehicle - War Thunder — official forum
Not to mention the usefulness of SPAA in general when no CAS or heli present but still , sorry , i assumed that cause everyone i have been talking to always concluded with nerfing the Pantsir or removing it. This whole “Non russia SPAA” problem could be solved easily just by nerfing CAS across the board, cause gaijin doesn’t seem to be adding any SPAA for the near future. Even tho everyone desperately needing it
you know the thing about those threads is the fact that there not this 1, so if you wanna go over their and say it shouldnt be removed im on your side here chief, but me nor the person you just replied to said it should be removed???
Speed isn’t anywhere close to a major factor, especially when launching at high altitude where you have high acceleration and gravity assist.
It’s hard to intercept highly vertical targets.
Pantsir’s range is 13 - 14km, 6km lower than 20, no risk with GBUs from my over a year using them with Pantsirs up.
Only reason I stopped maining CAS was cause Gaijin made an achievement which sucked any fun left out of it.
Also asking for SPAA equal to Pantsir will result in CAS remaining unkillable and OP.
The game needs at least SPYDER equivalent SPAA for all 10 tech trees.
That why Im sorry , my bad. I let my own assumption get a hold of me but still , I think this whole problem could be solved rather easily. Especially considering gaijin not doing any top tier SPAA this time around
speed is literally the most important factor, if your missile can get there in half the time thats a huge advantage to have, no mater the altitude to launch from non of these weapons other than the kh38 can go beyond mach 1, and high alt missiles are the easiest to intercept using the pansir since its radar is the best when it comes to vertical search,
and the other nations are already asking for those kinds of AA but the points is they dont even have anything on par with just the pantsir.
i mean at the end of the day i think we are all on the same side here, buffing AA in general is what we all want but the devs are just gonna keep leaving the AA issue on the table for what i would assume to be most of next year as well
My teammate flying his new f15e going mach 4 doesnt make it more enjoyable for me to fly a su27, i could care less who wins the match aside from rp gains which i dont really need if im in the su27 anyway
That their skills issue to not pay attention and utilize the tools they had like i said “more than two braincell” but fortunately most of pantsir don’t have it lol